My first FI build.

[SheepDog]

And basically none of the commercial tuners seem to want to associate with anything I touch

This is because they would then have to step up their game considerably, and that cuts into margins.

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[Wolfys11]

The guy who designed the FPM integrator and dual-FPDM harness doesn't want to make harnesses. We contacted 3 aftermarket companies, and none have shown interest in buying just the FPM integrator to build into harnesses.

The second issue is the venturi modifications. It's best to start with a gen3 bucket bottom, enlarge some existing holes, and snap onto the GT500 assembly. This means we would need sacrificial gen3 buckets or the end-user would have to drill some very specific and tiny holes in their old venturi and install themselves. Not ideal either way.

Thirdly is the tuning...I'm not really interested in getting into the tuning business but the above WILL NOT work without tuning. And basically none of the commercial tuners seem to want to associate with anything I touch. I have worked with DRP Motorsports on some stuff and we could probably come up with an arrangement, but you'd most likely have to switch to his entire tune even if you're happy with what you have.

Im happy with wengerd, but in general dont want to run a crappy designed fuel system just to max out my motors capabilities safely. But it seems theres almost no perfect system, which personally i dont get how someone hasnt figured it out yet for the coyote popular system

 

[SheepDog]

Im happy with wengerd, but in general dont want to run a crappy designed fuel system just to max out my motors capabilities safely. But it seems theres almost no perfect system, which personally i dont get how someone hasnt figured it out yet for the coyote popular system

Who knows, maybe this whole thing will come full circle when we have a reliable Controller for the DW810 Brushless pump. Or, maybe the solution that Mike came up with is the best it can get, (pretty much OEM+) but the mainstream tuners won't want to redo everything they have done and start over. This means that even if there is a perfect fueling solution, 95% of consumers won't be able to do anything with it because of the tuning component. Learning to tune these cars and trucks is a lifetime commitment (certainly at Mike's level)

 

[engineermike]

… i dont get how someone hasnt figured it out yet for the coyote popular system

I think what happened was the gen2 solutions “worked” for Gen3 so they were happy to continue selling the same thing without the additional development cost associated with making something better to match the gen3+.

 

[robvas]

I think what happened was the gen2 solutions “worked” for Gen3 so they were happy to continue selling the same thing without the additional development cost associated with making something better to match the gen3+.

Don't they not really have to do anything special for return style system? As opposed to all the world they would have to do in this case?

 

[Pistol_91]

I think what happened was the gen2 solutions “worked” for Gen3 so they were happy to continue selling the same thing without the additional development cost associated with making something better to match the gen3+.

This is exactly it.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

From what I gather it’s a dual fpdm setup sourced from Lawn Racimg, using either a gt500 bucket or radium, not sure on that. But his dual fpdm setup has some shortcomings. And both of the buckets have their own problems as well. Basically every aftermarket fuel system has some serious flaws except the one I built but no one seems to be interested in manufacturing or marketing it.

Sounds similar to the JD Performance fuel system I have on my f150.

 

[GrabberBargeCaptain]

These kits are super tempting. Random question after looking at the kit- do you have to take the bumper off every time you want to replace/clean the air filter?

 

[daSNAK3]

These kits are super tempting. Random question after looking at the kit- do you have to take the bumper off every time you want to replace/clean the air filter?

No. Some people pull it from the engine bay, I take my wheel off and pop a few of the liner clips out and change it that way.

 

[engineermike]

Don't they not really have to do anything special for return style system? As opposed to all the world they would have to do in this case?

Correct. Going with a return-style full-on system makes the tuner’s job much easier because they don’t have to deal with variable fuel pressure or the entire fuel pressure-control side of the tune. Not to mention they can potentially make money off of the fuel system as well, so it’s win-win for the tuner, while the customer gets stuck with an inferior fuel system and simplified tuning. It reminds me of how the tuners make the customer spend good money on devices whose sole purpose is to lock the customer out of the tune.

 

[engineermike]

Sounds similar to the JD Performance fuel system I have on my f150.

Yes I like the JD performance f150 kit. It adds the filter and a second fpdm. It doesn’t do the FPM integration though and not available for the Mustang.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

Yes I like the JD performance f150 kit. It adds the filter and a second fpdm. It doesn’t do the FPM integration though and not available for the Mustang.

Please elaborate on "doesn't do FPM integration ".

 

[engineermike]

Please elaborate on "doesn't do FPM integration ".

There a few diagnostic signals the fpdm generates such as bad or no signal to the fpdm, open circuit to the pump, and short circuit in the pump. The signal is called FPM or fuel pump monitor. The gt350/500 have two FPM signal wires going to the PCM. My friend designed and built a circuit that takes the FPM signals from both FPDMs and if one is signaling fault, sends that signal to the PCM.

One problem inherent to dual pumps is that if one fails then you don’t know it until you go wot and bad things happen. If you’re getting an FPM signal from both you’ll get an MIL ahead of time.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

There a few diagnostic signals the fpdm generates such as bad or no signal to the fpdm, open circuit to the pump, and short circuit in the pump. The signal is called FPM or fuel pump monitor. The gt350/500 have two FPM signal wires going to the PCM. My friend designed and built a circuit that takes the FPM signals from both FPDMs and if one is signaling fault, sends that signal to the PCM.

One problem inherent to dual pumps is that if one fails then you don’t know it until you go wot and bad things happen. If you’re getting an FPM signal from both you’ll get an MIL ahead of time.

Ah I see, thank you for the detail. It does say in the JD info to test each pump by periodically unplugging each FPDM at idle. Now I understand why.

 

[wingnutt]

Loving all the fuel related stuff here lately, as I’m about to start bumping things up…and do not want a return style ever again

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