Methanol kit

[Jackson1320]

If you are setup to make 20psi and you wastegate at 15 you don’t have to pay for the 5psi because you are still only compressing air to 15psi. So you still only have 15psi of resistance

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[illtal]

If you are setup to make 20psi and you wastegate at 15 you don’t have to pay for the 5psi because you are still only compressing air to 15psi. So you still only have 15psi of resistance

I don't know if I agree with not having to pay. The toothpaste is out of the tube at some rpm. If you make 15 psi at 65000 impeller speed, at 7400 rpm. With a 3.5 pulley. We can agree that you will make more than 15psi at 7500 rpm because the impeller is now spinning faster. The centri is l like a turbo the air is compressed in the volute. But unlike a turbo, WasteGating boost pressure in the case of a centri will not slow down the impeller speed because it is belt driven. Thus you are still heating up air to get the 15 that you want.
If you go with say a 3.0 pulley in the same scenario. You get say 20 psi at 7400 rpm. That air is already compressed, but now you're bleeding 5 of it off. Still got 20psi of compressed heat no matter how small the delta is. The impeller speed went up no matter what you do unless you put a clutch on the drive.

This is the same deal with the smart boost bypass for pd blowers. I'm 100% sure that bypassing that air will still be a hotter IAT than if you just ran a bigger pulley to lower the boost. Again the toothpaste is out of the tube.

Unless the impeller speed doesn't matter, when it comes to how much boost I don't see how you can get past the physics of it.

 

[andrewtac]

I don't know if I agree with not having to pay. The toothpaste is out of the tube at some rpm. If you make 15 psi at 65000 impeller speed, at 7400 rpm. With a 3.5 pulley. We can agree that you will make more than 15psi at 7500 rpm because the impeller is now spinning faster. The centri is l like a turbo the air is compressed in the volute. But unlike a turbo, WasteGating boost pressure in the case of a centri will not slow down the impeller speed because it is belt driven. Thus you are still heating up air to get the 15 that you want.
If you go with say a 3.0 pulley in the same scenario. You get say 20 psi at 7400 rpm. That air is already compressed, but now you're bleeding 5 of it off. Still got 20psi of compressed heat no matter how small the delta is. The impeller speed went up no matter what you do unless you put a clutch on the drive.

This is the same deal with the smart boost bypass for pd blowers. I'm 100% sure that bypassing that air will still be a hotter IAT than if you just ran a bigger pulley to lower the boost. Again the toothpaste is out of the tube.

Unless the impeller speed doesn't matter, when it comes to how much boost I don't see how you can get past the physics of it.

This is what I was thinking too, but it could be in how they make pressure increases. Screws are like piston compressors, they squeeze the air into submission, standard Boyles law; not going to put the toothpaste back as the pressure will increase and raise temp even if you bleed it off. Centri uses radial flow to increase the speed of the air then slows it back down to compress the air. If you have an opening (wastegate) only allowing the air to compress to 15psi rather than 20psi that extra 5psi of compression doesn't occur and the added heat doesn't as well. There will be some additional heat, with turning the impeller faster from friction but maybe not as much from compression as it doesn't get compressed. Maybe?

 

[illtal]

This is what I was thinking too, but it could be in how they make pressure increases. Screws are like piston compressors, they squeeze the air into submission, standard Boyles law; not going to put the toothpaste back as the pressure will increase and raise temp even if you bleed it off. Centri uses radial flow to increase the speed of the air then slows it back down to compress the air. If you have an opening (wastegate) only allowing the air to compress to 15psi rather than 20psi that extra 5psi of compression doesn't occur and the added heat doesn't as well. There will be some additional heat, with turning the impeller faster from friction but maybe not as much from compression as it doesn't get compressed. Maybe?

No, the air gets slowed down by the larger diameter on the volute exit. That is normal. The concept is the same as using a wastegate on a turbo except a higher boost pressure. You're manipulating the spring pressure to get the end result boost pressure. It does not change the physics.

In a turbo setup opening the wastegate slows the impeller via the turbine wheel (duh) less speed less boost unless there's a restriction to the wastegate flow direction. Less speed less boost. There is no point on the compressor map where the impeller speed rises but the boost pressure is stagnant. There are areas where you can have the same impeller speed and different amounts of boost though. You can have a higher impeller speed but run lower boost it will just change the efficiency island though

I've never seen a compressor map for a centri but if it is the same, it could be possible to spin it to certain RPM but get the a different boost pressure. This would be possible, but I don't know for sure. I'd like for someone to explain it if they can.

 

[andrewtac]

No, the air gets slowed down by the larger diameter on the volute exit. That is normal. The concept is the same as using a wastegate on a turbo except a higher boost pressure. You're manipulating the spring pressure to get the end result boost pressure. It does not change the physics.

Yeah air slowed in the volute, trying to figure out why it would be different.

 

[Jackson1320]

I don't know if I agree with not having to pay. The toothpaste is out of the tube at some rpm. If you make 15 psi at 65000 impeller speed, at 7400 rpm. With a 3.5 pulley. We can agree that you will make more than 15psi at 7500 rpm because the impeller is now spinning faster. The centri is l like a turbo the air is compressed in the volute. But unlike a turbo, WasteGating boost pressure in the case of a centri will not slow down the impeller speed because it is belt driven. Thus you are still heating up air to get the 15 that you want.
If you go with say a 3.0 pulley in the same scenario. You get say 20 psi at 7400 rpm. That air is already compressed, but now you're bleeding 5 of it off. Still got 20psi of compressed heat no matter how small the delta is. The impeller speed went up no matter what you do unless you put a clutch on the drive.

This is the same deal with the smart boost bypass for pd blowers. I'm 100% sure that bypassing that air will still be a hotter IAT than if you just ran a bigger pulley to lower the boost. Again the toothpaste is out of the tube.

Unless the impeller speed doesn't matter, when it comes to how much boost I don't see how you can get past the physics of it.

You aren’t compressing the air to 20 and then bleeding it off to 15. Take the hoses off the centrifugal and spin it as fast as you want and it will not make any pressure. It’s not until you have a restriction on the centrifugal that it starts producing boost. So if you only have 15 psi of back pressure then you only make 15psi of boost. Pressure is made in the volute but only up to the amount of restriction. You don’t have 20psi before the wastegate and 15psi after. If there’s no other restriction between the volute and the wastegate then the pressure is the same from the volute to the wastegate. If you bring in more air then the wastegate just dumps more keeping in from compressing. So yes you are moving more air so there might be a tiny bit more parasitic loss but there’s no more pressure in the system or the volute and there’s no more heat

 

[illtal]

You aren’t compressing the air to 20 and then bleeding it off to 15. Take the hoses off the centrifugal and spin it as fast as you want and it will not make any pressure. It’s not until you have a restriction on the centrifugal that it starts producing boost. So if you only have 15 psi of back pressure then you only make 15psi of boost. Pressure is made in the volute but only up to the amount of restriction. You don’t have 20psi before the wastegate and 15psi after. If there’s no other restriction between the volute and the wastegate then the pressure is the same from the volute to the wastegate. If you bring in more air then the wastegate just dumps more keeping in from compressing. So yes you are moving more air so there might be a tiny bit more parasitic loss but there’s no more pressure in the system or the volute and there’s no more heat

@Jackson1320 , I think I get it man. I'm not trying to have a pissing contest either. Just so you know where I'm coming from.

So the wastegate is adjusting the amount of restriction, that's the only point that has an "adjustable" restriction. You're right you can't have 15 psi after the wastegate and meanwhile have 20 psi before, it has to be the same in the system. So you still are spinning the impeller at a faster speed, but you still only have 15 in there, so there is more heat and obviously probably less efficient. This would probably just mean you land on a lower "efficiency island"

 

[Jackson1320]

@Jackson1320 , I think I get it man. I'm not trying to have a pissing contest either. Just so you know where I'm coming from.

So the wastegate is adjusting the amount of restriction, that's the only point that has an "adjustable" restriction. You're right you can't have 15 psi after the wastegate and meanwhile have 20 psi before, it has to be the same in the system. So you still are spinning the impeller at a faster speed, but you still only have 15 in there, so there is more heat and obviously probably less efficient. This would probably just mean you land on a lower "efficiency island"

I’m not trying to have a pissing contest at all and I apologize if it seemed like that. Just having a friendly debate.
You will spin faster and that will cause more parasitic loss but very little. But the amount of heat should not be any different because there’s the same amount of pressure in both setups. Compressing the air is where the heat comes from. So compressing one foot of air or two should not make much difference. But how much you compress it to will

 

[illtal]

I’m not trying to have a pissing contest at all and I apologize if it seemed like that. Just having a friendly debate.
You will spin faster and that will cause more parasitic loss but very little. But the amount of heat should not be any different because there’s the same amount of pressure in both setups. Compressing the air is where the heat comes from. So compressing one foot of air or two should not make much difference. But how much you compress it to will

No worries, it didn't seem like that I just wanted you to know. I wanted to know why something was the way that is was. Now I understand.

 

[frestylmotox01]

I'm looking at adding a snow performance kit to my ESS G3 kit car and I'm curious to how everyone likes it so far? I'm also looking for a recommendation on where to install the nozzle since the ESS kit is all silicone tubing except where the filter connects and where the MAF sensor is. Would it be best to place it just after the MAF?

 

[Exploded_Muffin]

I'm looking at adding a snow performance kit to my ESS G3 kit car and I'm curious to how everyone likes it so far? I'm also looking for a recommendation on where to install the nozzle since the ESS kit is all silicone tubing except where the filter connects and where the MAF sensor is. Would it be best to place it just after the MAF?

Mine has been going strong for about a year now.

You can either install the nozzle pre (better air mix and distribution across cylinders) or post (less even distribution but more effective cooling) throttle body.
Pick what's more important for you. Most folks run it pre throttle body for centrifugals from what I've seen.

1. If running pre TB you can place the nozzle anywhere on the MAF Housing - TB silicone tubing.
Use either of the following:
https://www.nitrousexpress.com/nozzle-mount-adapter-sno-40110.asp
(Drill a hole in the MAF - TB tubing and install this. You'll need to apply a decent amount of sealant around the fitting to prevent any boost leaks)

https://www.nitrousexpress.com/Barb-Water-Meth-ring.asp
(Cut your MAF - TB tubing and couple this in with t-bolt clamps. More expensive but you don't have to worry about any potential boost leaks)
This is what I use currently


2. If running post TB get a kit that comes with the TB adapter plate:
https://www.nitrousexpress.com/2011-up-mustang-50l-injection-plate-sno-40071.asp

 

[Jackson1320]

Mine has been going strong for about a year now.

You can either install the nozzle pre (better air mix and distribution across cylinders) or post (less even distribution but more effective cooling) throttle body.
Pick what's more important for you. Most folks run it pre throttle body for centrifugals from what I've seen.

1. If running pre TB you can place the nozzle anywhere on the MAF Housing - TB silicone tubing.
Use either of the following:
https://www.nitrousexpress.com/nozzle-mount-adapter-sno-40110.asp
(Drill a hole in the MAF - TB tubing and install this. You'll need to apply a decent amount of sealant around the fitting to prevent any boost leaks)

https://www.nitrousexpress.com/Barb-Water-Meth-ring.asp
(Cut your MAF - TB tubing and couple this in with t-bolt clamps. More expensive but you don't have to worry about any potential boost leaks)
This is what I use currently


2. If running post TB get a kit that comes with the TB adapter plate:
https://www.nitrousexpress.com/2011-up-mustang-50l-injection-plate-sno-40071.asp

i install the nozzle as far away from the tb as possible to give as much time as possible for it to mix. normally right after maf and move the iat into the manifold.

 

[Exploded_Muffin]

i install the nozzle as far away from the tb as possible to give as much time as possible for it to mix. normally right after maf and move the iat into the manifold.

Exactly my setup

 

[pmor4243]

Im curious to get some thoughts from you guys. I added a Snow Progressive kit to my Procharged GT to give me some knock prevention headroom since all we have in Utah is 91 octane.

So far I have gone up to a 12gph nozzle and I'm having a tough time getting consistent knock suppression. At times it seems that I'll get full timing on a pull, then the next the car will be back to pulling 1.5-2.5*. This is with a 50:50 mix spraying just after the intercooler. Boostane will clear up all of the KR but I'm hoping I can get the methanol dialed in and not have to run Boostane.

Are there any recommendations on either nozzle size, or perhaps a different mix ratio that would give me more consistent performance for knock prevention?

 

[Chris Barnes]

Im curious to get some thoughts from you guys. I added a Snow Progressive kit to my Procharged GT to give me some knock prevention headroom since all we have in Utah is 91 octane.

So far I have gone up to a 12gph nozzle and I'm having a tough time getting consistent knock suppression. At times it seems that I'll get full timing on a pull, then the next the car will be back to pulling 1.5-2.5*. This is with a 50:50 mix spraying just after the intercooler. Boostane will clear up all of the KR but I'm hoping I can get the methanol dialed in and not have to run Boostane.

Are there any recommendations on either nozzle size, or perhaps a different mix ratio that would give me more consistent performance for knock prevention?

I had to install a dual nozzle setup on my P1X 2018 GT. 1 nozzle wouldn't get it done for me either.

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