Lug Nuts Compatibility

[WildHorse]

cause most aftermarket wheels don't call for a stupid amount of torque the Ford uses on OEM wheels. BTW your 2020 lugs look just like my 17 lugs. Which grew from a 21mm to a 22mm haha.

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[WD Pro]

I want my lug nuts to be blue. The nuts that are on now (not replaced yet) are blue and beautiful, like my car. I want blueeee.

Get Ti and have them anodised blue

cause most aftermarket wheels don't call for a stupid amount of torque the Ford uses on OEM wheels. BTW your 2020 lugs look just like my 17 lugs. Which grew from a 21mm to a 22mm haha.

But they weren’t 21mm to start with ...

WD

 

[Michael_vroomvroom]

cause most aftermarket wheels don't call for a stupid amount of torque the Ford uses on OEM wheels. BTW your 2020 lugs look just like my 17 lugs. Which grew from a 21mm to a 22mm haha.

I think it has been established here already that the wheels have nothing to do with the amount of torque required.

 

[WildHorse]

I think it has been established here already that the wheels have nothing to do with the amount of torque required.

Think again

But they weren’t 21mm to start with ...

My fronts are 21mm.. rears use to be 21mm when new. Go figure haha.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

BTW your 2020 lugs look just like my 17 lugs. Which grew from a 21mm to a 22mm haha.

You didn't know the universe was expanding?

 

[WildHorse]

You didn't know the universe was expanding?

Heard that wheelchair dude mention somethin about that. However, Radiation contains energy, which causes the black hole to lose mass via Einstein’s E = mc2, so that 22mm should eventually come back to being 21mm.

 

[sk47]

Hello; Found this thread of interest. I cannot add much useful information directly about the question. I did have an older Ford F-150 with the two part factory lug nuts. The outer cover did come loose but I found a proper size socket that did work. This was an 1989 F-150.
I do not recall the factory torque specs but can say 150 foot pounds is not so odd. My Chevy Silverado callss for 140 ft pds.

Many years ago my brother put some aftermarket wheels on an F-150. (mid 1990's) After a time he sold the wheels and put the factory rims back on. He did use the fancy lug nuts from the aftermarket wheels. This is important to the story. So the truck was making a noise. He called me over and I brought my tools. He thought it was the wheel bearings. I pulled the axels and looked at the bearings. Told him they looked ok to me. He insisted we change them which is a chore. We got the job done.
The truck still was making a noise. Longer story short. Turns out the fancy lug nuts did tighten down properly. The after market wheels were a bit thicker and the fancy nuts were closed at the end. When the open factory lug nuts were put back on the noise went away.

 

[GT450]

Just as a heads up I am looking at McGard nuts.

Supposedly better at withstanding the elements than Gorilla.

McGard make the ford supplied locking nuts that we get on the Euro's so I've no concern in the torque value.

Only thing I need to check is that the OD of the bulge on the McGard nuts is smaller than Ford. Note that the OD of the ford nut is exaggerated by the stainless cover and a much smaller OD actually touches the wheel.

I just want to make sure that the silver rings left in the nut holes of the PP wheels are hidden with the McGard nuts. McGard tell me the OD of the bulge on their nuts is 25.52mm

WD

 

[GT450]

Sorry I hit the reply button before typing, but I bought the McGard nuts and had them on a previous high performance Gt Falcon and the finish and fit is very good. You will, if you are prepared to get down on your knees, see a small fraction of the silver on the rim but to be honest it's unnoticeable from any other perspective, and in any case even when you can see it this does not look out of place.
The quality of the McGards is second to none and I highly doubt you would be disappointed.

 

[GT450]

OP,
DO NOT USE NARROW SEAT LUG NUTS ON OEM WHEELS!!

I contacted both Gorilla and McGard on this. The narrow seat Gorilla should NOT be used with the OEM wheel. They told the vendors this. They are not sure why they do not correct the posting. They are suppose to say something like this - Will fit OEM or aftermarket wheel that have a 0.92" lug seat. Only if your seat is the narrow 0.92" should you use narrow seat lug nuts. The original seat is 1.2". You need to fill the seat on Aluminum wheels for proper fitment. It is not enough to have the seat angle and type and thread. The diameter of the seat must be filled. This is what they conveyed to me. They seemed to indicate it is not safe to use narrow lugs on a wider seat. Steel is different but we do not have steel wheels. You can get away with certain things on steel you cannot on aluminum. Can you get away with it? Sure you might but why run the gamble?

Contact the vendor and get the details straight from the horse's mouth. Jon Collier is a great guy at Gorilla and promptly responded to my questions. Very informative. Jeffrey Wade at McGard also was very helpful. Give them a shout out.

I have a set of aftermarket wheel for winter and purchased the narrower seat Gorilla because they have a 0.92" seat. Many aftermarket for the Mustang do. That is why the Mustang vendors carry them - to support those wheels.

Instead of posting here, ask the vendors what to use. I did. It doesn't matter what other have got to work for them. There must be a reason Ford uses a large budge acorn nut.

If you have aftermarket wheels that have narrower lug pockets, make sure your wrench or lug socket fits too. My VMR 710 have narrower pockets and were drilled for a 0.92" lug seat. They were made for the narrower lug nut. Our OEM were not. Their 1.2" seat requires the wider budge nut.

If you are unsure what fits, put some sharpie on one part and mount the wheel with the lug in question. The friction will remove the sharpie where contact is made. You can measure the seat using the wide lug nut or verify the entire seat is filled this way by marking the appropriate part.

Sorry to say this but I do not think McGard makes a narrower lug nut. It is not just the seat you should think about but also what size socket or wrench is used to install. I have a set of protector lug nut sockets and the OEM nut is a rather tight fit in the aftermarket wheels. Going to the smaller diameter Gorilla allowed me to go down one size in socket too giving me more room and less chance of marking up the aftermarket wheels.

All the best. Stay safe.

I should also point out to WDpro and Fly2high that the McGards required me to buy a 22mm impact socket for the Mustang whereas previously my Falcon wheel nuts OE required 21mm and the replacement McGards needed a 19mm and I never had a problem with either .

 

[Vlad Soare]

BTW your 2020 lugs look just like my 17 lugs. Which grew from a 21mm to a 22mm haha.

Growing from 21 to 22 is OK. You just grab a bigger wrench, and Bob's your uncle. The problem is when they grow from 21 to 21.5. That's when you're stuck.

Does anyone, by any chance, have a link to these McGards we're talking about?

 

[WD Pro]

@Vlad Soare

https://mcgard.com/product/black-bu...et-m14-x-1-5-thread-size-set-of-4-lug-nuts-2/

WD

 

[Michael_vroomvroom]

Think again

One of the many threads discussing this here:

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/wheel-installation-torque.78518/

One particular great example was from jbailer: "Why do you think basically the same wheel on a 2014 would be torqued at 100 lb ft vs 150 lb ft on the 15. " This is because the wheel studs changed from 2014 to 2015, and so did the corresponding torque specification. And nobody cares about the wheel, which you can keep on the 2014 torqued at 100 lbs ft according to spec, or move to the 2015 and torque at 150 lbs ft, also according to spec.

So I thought again and what you said still does not make sense to me.

 

[Fly2High]

All I was pointing out was that my aftermarket wheels have the lug nuts down in a well which I think is something like 32 mm. Either way, the 21mm sockets I have just barely fit. There is maybe a 1/2 - 1 mm on either side - if that. In no way could I fit a larger diameter lug nut.

As for working, i view it like this:

1. Ford says to use a large bulge acorn nut with a 1.2" seat.
2. Two lug nut vendors suggest using a nut with a 1.2" seat
3. One vendor indicated that a retailer incorrectly represented their product and they informed them to change the writeup.

That, for me is enough not to take a chance.

Let's add the following:

1. All lug nut manufacturer indicate there are differences for fitment based on material (aluminum vs steel). They indicate to fill the seat with aluminum or not to use the narrow seat steel lugs on aluminum wheels
2. Going to a narrower lug nut would also mean you are retaining the wheel by the inner part of a tapered cone. This is the thinnest part of the cone. Technically, it should also be capable of bearing less force than if the entire seat were to be engaged.

Jon from Gorilla emailed this

Hi Frank,

Thanks for getting in touch.

Do you have any information from VMR for the lug nuts they spec for your application? I don't have any references for aftermarket wheels here, so that information needs to come from them or your retailer/installer.

Most aftermarket wheels have narrower lug nut pockets, so if you don't want to use a Spline style lug nut you would specifically need to know the diameter of the lug nut pocket to determine what size lug nut socket will fit. For example, most thin wall 3/4" hex sockets are about 1" wide so to use that hex size lug nut the wheel would need that much clearance.

For the factory Ford wheels, we would only recommend the factory lug nuts or our Factory style lug nuts which are replicas. We don't recommend using a narrower lug nut designed for aftermarket wheels on the factory wheels.

We don't offer any gunmetal lug nut finishes, chrome or black is available for most lug nut styles. Once I have some more information I'll be happy to provide some part numbers.

Thank you,

Jon Collier

Hi Frank,



Are you looking for the OEM lug nut style then? If VMR is building the wheel to use the OEM lug nuts, that would be ideal so that you would be using the correct lug nuts for your factory wheels as well.



Our factory style lug nut we recommend for your OEM wheels would be part number 61148CX. These parts are 30mm wide at the base to match the factory lug nuts. If that lug nut isn’t compatible with the VMR wheels for some reason, that is the only part we would recommend for the OEM wheels.



You could use a more standard 21mm/13/16” hex lug nut in the VMR wheels if there are any issues. Something like my part number 91147HTB (4 pack, bag) would be a more standard lug style and is less than 1” wide.



Thank you,

Jon Collier

you could have a 100 people saying it works for them but does that really change the physics? Just because someone was lucky or sold the car before any chance for failure has occurred doesn't necessarily mean it is right. It seems the Mustang if often sold within 5 years of age. Might also be that the aftermarket wheel had thicker lug seats than what OEM has and that offset the weakness.

 

[WD Pro]

Just posted this on my build thread, but also very relevant for this thread :

The standard ford nut measures :

Max OD (over stainless cap) : 30.75mm
Max OD (of the ford taper) : 27.10mm
Max OD (that actually contacts the taper in the wheel) : 25.00mm

I found the last measurement using dry wipe marker on a standard nut and torquing it up, it was also a good excuse to try out my new 24" breaker and socket that I got for birthday :

Diameter needed to cover the silver masked area on the PP wheels : 28.00mm (approx) :

Black wheel nuts are now on the Christmas list ...

WD

WD

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