Just ordered Antigravity Lithium Battery

[madlag]

Just read through this thread. I’m interested in a smal light weight batter with a nice mount. I don’t daily drive my car so it sits 1-3 weeks at a time.

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[Sagittaria]

This thread has taken a few turns but I'm at the point of replacing my battery. I want to thank Demonic for all the testing and info he's provided. After many hours researching over the past couple weeks — I have come to similar conclusions. I ordered a YTX20 and will be doing some testing to get it to hopefully run like OEM for everyone.

Antigravity YTX20
Antigravity's YTX20 appears to be one of the better options. It has cell balancing and one of the best true capacities for the price point/weight. I don't think I will have any problem following Demonic's experience and simply dropping it in, resetting the BMS with Forscan, and using it as a DD (being mindful it is of course a smaller lithium battery).

For example, I use Shorai batteries in all my motorcycles and they've performed flawlessly. I don't even think about it with my bikes even in stop and go traffic and 30 degree weather. For cars, the Shorai LFX36L3-BS12 is $100 cheaper than the YTX20. But it has a slightly smaller capacity at 12AH (true) vs. the 14AHish of the YTX20 (estimate, can't find an exact published value). Most importantly it does not have cell balancing. May not be a big deal but a definite plus to the Antigravity. Vette, Miata, Toyota guys run this battery all the time with no issues.

Smart Charging and Lithium
The only issue left is Smart Charging. Lithium batteries charge/discharge differently than FLA (Flooded Acid) or AGM batteries. Most notably they discharge at a constant rate. A lead acid battery discharges at a linear decreasing rate in terms of voltage. See example below:

LFP (Antigravity and similar batteries) pretty much hold a constant voltage. Think a new lithium power drill. It basically quits working once it's discharged rather than slowing down like an old drill.

So what's the big deal? Well Smart Charging makes sure the battery stays at a specific charge of say 85% for example. It may charge immediately at full volts after starting a vehicle but drop down on the highway once the battery is charged. This extends the life of the battery, improves MPG, and helps out with power in certain scenarios. Basically a more dynamic.. or smarter system. Pretty neat

The problem comes in the PCM knowing at what charge level the battery is. A big part of measuring this is just reading the voltages. There's a bunch of other factors but point is — Lithium batteries state of charge are read differently than lead acids.

Minor Problem
Demonic came to the same conclusion I did awhile ago. The Smart Charging system stock just doesn't know a Lithium battery is discharged enough to warrant charging until a little too late. A simplified hypothesis is likely due to constant voltage nature of lithium batteries explained above.

It appears that the cars are running 'any' lithium battery at a constantly decreased rate of charge. It looks like whether this works in a given person's car is based both on the conditions their car has been running under, and whether those conditions happen to trigger a given battery's internal protections. I am aware that people have run the VoltPhreaks batteries without issues, but based on what I've come across, the battery is still running below actual intended charge levels. I'm now trying to figure out if I can use Forscan to adjust the BCM's (the module that controls battery charge) intended charge level instead of us just running various different lithium batteries in sub-optimal states. I'll post more once I have more solid info.

Demonic do you have any updates? I'd guess lithium batteries running under the stock settings may be running at 50-70% levels of charge. I'll confirm once I have mine in.

Possible Solution
The off the cuff solution is to just turn off Smart Charging.. There's some big benefits seen above and I think it's more of a case of misunderstood tech rather than "needless complicated technology."

As Demonic was looking into, basically the solution is to get the PCM to realize that there's a lithium battery in there and charge accordingly. If only there was another recently released Ford vehicle that uses a lithium battery that the PCM already has a profile for.... oh wait Batman! There is!

The Ford GT uses a lithium battery. Seeings as how plenty of S550 owners are using Ford GT Splash Screens, Sync Settings, and other non sense — the lithium Smart Charging battery type should be a valid option. Thanks to Mr. Leno and his GT's VIN (love the show!), the Smart Charging line is "726-04-01 0502 0000" where "05" is the battery type and "02" means that Smart Charging is indeed enabled stock on the Ford GT.

Obviously the battery is different and won't be a perfect match but hopefully it'll get us near enough. The other option is to purchase a Ford GT battery for the low price of $700 (HG7Z-10655-B)!

GT350 Programmed Battery Type
The stock value seen in forscan for my R is for a normal S550 Group 96R battery (incidentally not even the GT350's smaller battery). The code is "12" although interestingly some 350s come with "07" for a similar battery.

List of known batteries from the F150 forum. Yes it's for an F150 but the value of "12" found in my R correlates correctly as does the "07". There's a lot of shared values between vehicles.

Next Steps
Once I get the battery in I'll do some data logging — primarily the state of charge. I will have to find a tool that does this for Lithium Batteries. Hopefully it's running at an acceptable level of charge and we don't have to mess with anything else but I doubt it.

If that's the case I'll swap over to the GT Battery Type and repeat testing. Hopefully it's a valid option and the battery runs at an acceptable charge level. View attachment 331003

 

[Sagittaria]

Long post everyone I know, to sum all that up:

1. Ordered a YTX20 battery. Seems to be a solid choice for $370 and 5lbs.
2. Will log charge level while driving by just dropping in and resetting Battery Monitor. Hopefully it's >80%
3. If not, will try Ford GT Lithium Battery type via Forscan. Repeat charge level logging.

If all goes well, should have the battery run as intended and save 27lbs+

 

[ldp82]

This is great work. Please report back how it works out

 

[cjgt350]

Just some follow up. Still no issue with the Antigravity battery model I am running as I posted in post #11. I just keep it on a CTEK maintainer for Lithium batteries. Zero issues....street driving and four track sessions since installing.

 

[Zitrosounds]

I finally ordered the Antigravity ATX-20. WOW!!!! My original battery was on its last leg so it was time to replace. My old almost unusable battery weighed in at 27lbs. the AG ATX-20??? 4.8 LBS!!!!!
YUP!!! Its awesome. I did not order the proprietary terminals but made it work. Used tool box foam (chem resistant) cut to shape and wedged around the battery to keep it from moving. Will load pictures soon. My car sits regularly and is driven at least once a week with the occasional two week stints off due to weather or work. No problems whats so ever. The most notable improvement is how quickly the car starts!!!! Man this lil battery has some starting power!!! Second most notable, at least to me, was the weight. With very spirited driving and track app tests, the weight reduction was impressive. Even more of a reason for me to lose 10 lbs LOL.

Make sure to due as Demonic has mentioned and all should be good. Reset the battery monitoring through forskin ; ) etc. Have not had any charging issues thus far. Albeit it has only been a week and the car has been driven twice. This battery will be run in the R and our Champ car during competition. Best 400 bucks spent on the car.

Thanks to Antigravity and Demonic for all the help answering various questions in writing and over the phone

 

[Zitrosounds]

Images of install. Will be ordering the !ntingravity post for better fitment.

 

[THX 138]

I finally ordered the Antigravity ATX-20. WOW!!!! My original battery was on its last leg so it was time to replace. My old almost unusable battery weight in at 27lbs. the AG ATX-30??? 4.8 LBS!!!!!

Just to clarify, did you get the ATX-20 or the ATX-30?

 

[Zitrosounds]

Just to clarify, did you get the ATX-20 or the ATX-30?

SORRY!!! The old model was the YTX-20. The new model is the ATX-20.
https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/oem-size/atx20/

 

[THX 138]

Good call... Based on Demonic's post a couple pages back, I'm inclined to think the non-restart ATX-20 is the best choice at this point.

 

[908ssp]

From what I see on the web site the restart is a ATX-20 and the non-restart is a YTX20 but the picture above the name YTX20 is of a ATX-20 without restart. Too bad the site is mess... I need to buy a new battery come spring does the "re-start" issue include the GT mustangs or just the GT350?

 

[Zitrosounds]

From what I see on the web site the restart is a ATX-20 and the non-restart is a YTX20 but the picture above the name YTX20 is of a ATX-20 without restart. Too bad the site is mess... I need to buy a new battery come spring does the "re-start" issue include the GT mustangs or just the GT350?

Go back to the site, https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/?s=atx-20&post_type=product

YTX-20 is no longer. There are two ATX-20. AG-ATX20-RS (restart) and a non RS, AG-ATX20. You want the non restart. All S550 mustangs have the same smart charging system.

 

[908ssp]

Thanks. It still says YTX20 under the picture of the ATX-20 non restart battery.

 

[Tomster]

Is it this one?

 

[Zitrosounds]

That's it! I've had it for over a month. It's been in the low 20's over night with frost/freezing all outside. After 7days cars starts right up and quick!!!! It cranks the starter over unbelievably fast. Very happy with the battery

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