Juggernaut outed

[NotMarc]

A lot of stuff doesn't make any sense here.

So let me get this clear in my head. Some chick was previously tuned by Lund. She then decided she wanted to run E85 so she ordered an entire fuel system, dropped the fuel system and the car off at some other shop, waited for them to install everything, and then at the very last moment she instantly developed a "gotta have it now" attitude and pressured this poor sap into pulling the tune, modifying it, and reinstalling it. Am I on track soo far? So this is where I'm stuck at. Did she later on go back to Lund for something and that is when it was discovered that the tune was tampered with? And not for nothing, how did Lund know exactly who did it? Did she go back and tell him? And lastly, what to me seems important, is this something that this guy has done in the past or has a reputation of doing or was it a one off type deal?

What gets me is that at some point in all this, she could have emailed, messaged, called, or found some other 21st Century way of contacting Lund and explaining that she would need her tune revised to run ethanol blends ASAP. Maybe, just maybe, if she had explained this life or death situation in which this all had to happen right then and there then he could have express-tuned her. On the same token this dude could have told her no. Or if he was really THAT motivated to be the Shining Knight in White Armor, he could have used some professional courtesy and contacted Lund on her behalf and told him what he planned to do. So I'm not here to bad mouth anyone, but this entire story does not sound as innocent as it seems.

On the other had, unless the tune is locked or there is some written agreement, I do not see anything wrong with someone revising a tune. End of the day it is the user's car, not the tuner's. I hired/paid the tuner to write and tune MY car. Nothing more. Once they write and tune it, that is where it all ends. If I, at 253 in the morning decide that I want my idle RPMs to be higher then, it being my car, I should have the right to do so. If I go to a different shop for some work because my original tuner is not available or the new shop is giving me a better price or whatever reason, then, it being my car, I should be able to do so. I've had cars that were highly modded in the past and when I took them to other shops the new tuner pulled the tune file and made revisions to it. I see nothing wrong with that.

It seems to me that all parties involved behaved foolishly. Lund does not own the car. Therefore he has no say in it. This chick should have contacted Lund. But again it is her car and she can do whatever she wants. Perhaps the tuner should have extended some professional courtesy Lund's way. But again, it is not Lund's car. Lund simply wrote a tune. So all of this just seems a bit petty and immature.

The only part to add here is that there's some pretty valuable intellectual property involved. So yes, we still own our cars, but the creator of said IP has their own rights as well. From what I believe the Lund side is saying, those files were locked, and those security measures were circumvented in order to tune the young ladies car. In a perfect world - who really cares. Just as you stated. But when there are other things at play, like the value of a Twin Turbo E85 tune, especially if competitors don't have that quite ironed out, it begins to look questionable. Especially since the guy didn't just do her a favor, he used the "favor" to promote that service for others, a service that he allegedly didn't offer before the "favor". There's a lot of he said she said, but I see both sides.

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[ZXMustang]

The only part to add here is that there's some pretty valuable intellectual property involved. So yes, we still own our cars, but the creator of said IP has their own rights as well. From what I believe the Lund side is saying, those files were locked, and those security measures were circumvented in order to tune the young ladies car. In a perfect world - who really cares. Just as you stated. But when there are other things at play, like the value of a Twin Turbo E85 tune, especially if competitors don't have that quite ironed out, it begins to look questionable. Especially since the guy didn't just do her a favor, he used the "favor" to promote that service for others, a service that he allegedly didn't offer before the "favor". There's a lot of he said she said, but I see both sides.

No there is no IP here. This is a ford calibration. None of these people authored it. And honestly none of them even have access to most of the actual tables and values in the complete calibration. Only what SCT or HPT had made access to. And their “IP” is merely changes to existing values. Man a proper attorney in this field could pick that IP argument apart in minutes. There is no IP here. Just changed settings in a ford calibration.

 

[Evolvd]

So here’s the sides I’m seeing. Lund was supposedly going to keep their mouths shut until Matt outed himself. Their issue is that he took their tune, modified it, and then promoted the work he did on Facebook and tagged “jugtuned” on it and gave no props to Lund. So their contention is he pirated their tune, modified it, and is now claiming it as his own. Of course every tuner has to start with ford’s calibrations but you don’t just start out by tuning 800hp tunes without some kind of work done from the base tune on up. This is Lund’s concern by stating Matt never tuned high horsepower cars for them and all of sudden he has access to higher-end tuning data that he didn’t write or develop. No, it’s not IP, but it is copying someone else’s work and claiming it as your own when you say it’s “jugtuned”.

I don’t care for Lund at all but I can see the point they are making. Had Matt not said anything this would’ve probably been a nothingburger. But he opened his mouth to defend himself and then Lund pounced on it and laid out all their evidence and then talked mad shit about him while doing it. So, they may be right, but Lund, and Flores (who’s really a yolo douchebag) in particular, just look like a bunch of whiny ass-clowns.

 

[beefcake]

So here’s the sides I’m seeing. Lund was supposedly going to keep their mouths shut until Matt outed himself. Their issue is that he took their tune, modified it, and then promoted the work he did on Facebook and tagged “jugtuned” on it and gave no props to Lund. So their contention is he pirated their tune, modified it, and is now claiming it as his own. Of course every tuner has to start with ford’s calibrations but you don’t just start out by tuning 800hp tunes without some kind of work done from the base tune on up. This is Lund’s concern by stating Matt never tuned high horsepower cars for them and all of sudden he has access to higher-end tuning data that he didn’t write or develop. No, it’s not IP, but it is copying someone else’s work and claiming it as your own when you say it’s “jugtuned”.

I don’t care for Lund at all but I can see the point they are making. Had Matt not said anything this would’ve probably been a nothingburger. But he opened his mouth to defend himself and then Lund pounced on it and laid out all their evidence and then talked mad shit about him while doing it. So, they may be right, but Lund, and Fores in particular, just look like a bunch of whiny ass-clowns.

at the time. juggernaut did not offer tuning. matt is a talented tuner. but they were not tuning cars at the time.

matt had invested in juggernaut. but only on the parts side.

he was doing an employee a favor to get her on the road quick. no more no less.

employee had a bad exit not sure the circumstance.

and no. lund did try to cause drama and their mouth piece did a 1.5 he show trying to trash matt

a week after they spent an entire show trying to trash tricky and pbd.

 

[AZlb5.0]

So here’s the sides I’m seeing. Lund was supposedly going to keep their mouths shut until Matt outed himself. Their issue is that he took their tune, modified it, and then promoted the work he did on Facebook and tagged “jugtuned” on it and gave no props to Lund. So their contention is he pirated their tune, modified it, and is now claiming it as his own. Of course every tuner has to start with ford’s calibrations but you don’t just start out by tuning 800hp tunes without some kind of work done from the base tune on up. This is Lund’s concern by stating Matt never tuned high horsepower cars for them and all of sudden he has access to higher-end tuning data that he didn’t write or develop. No, it’s not IP, but it is copying someone else’s work and claiming it as your own when you say it’s “jugtuned”.

I don’t care for Lund at all but I can see the point they are making. Had Matt not said anything this would’ve probably been a nothingburger. But he opened his mouth to defend himself and then Lund pounced on it and laid out all their evidence and then talked mad shit about him while doing it. So, they may be right, but Lund, and Flores (who’s really a yolo douchebag) in particular, just look like a bunch of whiny ass-clowns.

But every single tuner does this. They go in look at other tunes and see how they can improve on them and if they are smart enough they’ll make money while at it. That’s what’s been happening since the tuning game began. It’s just over writes over over writes and a few where smart enough to make someone pay for their time.

 

[K4fxd]

I do have a couple of unlocked Lund tunes. They are nothing special. In fact they are really simple, almost ingeniously so.

If I were to sell this tune as mine, that would be morally wrong, but nothing could be done legally.

I have no problem using what I learned from looking at these tunes and figuring why he does what he does, then using what I like about it and discarding what I do not like.

 

[Evolvd]

But every single tuner does this. They go in look at other tunes and see how they can improve on them and if they are smart enough they’ll make money while at it. That’s what’s been happening since the tuning game began. It’s just over writes over over writes and a few where smart enough to make someone pay for their time.

I’m not disagreeing with you, I’m answering a question for someone who wasn’t following what all the hubbub is about.

Lund can go pound sand for all I care.

 

[Angrey]

Reconfiguring "settings" in a prescribed set of tables on a tuning portal isn't intellectual property. It's not crude or hyperbole to say if I sit in your car and "tune" your stereo system by adjusting the settings, that now it belongs to me? And if some other "tuner" comes along and doesn't think the bass settings or the front/rear balance is where it should be, that he has to totally zero everything else out before he makes his adjustments?

Again, if you share your recipe for brisket with me and I like everything about it except for which would you use to smoke it and I use my own, am I "pirating" your recipe?

These aren't copyrighted works of literature. They're literally just taking and tweaking settings on a menu of inputs.

The whole discussion is derived from a place of ego where some people have the misguided opinion that it's quantum physics and no one else can do it. (or just as bad, no one else can do it as good as WE can).

There is no excuse in America to moan about intellectual property. If you want something protected, we have some of the best patent and intellectual property laws and systems in the world. If it's that important to you, either invest in encryption, file for protections or stfu about it. If it's not worth protecting properly, there's not a whole lot to moan about.

Several years ago there was a dust up between Injector Dynamics and another "vendor" (vendor is what they are, because they ALL start off with the same Bosch injector, they just add their own tip, some different clothing and then flow test/match them). It's undeniable that ID spends way more time and effort matching their injectors in multiple ways. You're really paying for the time/effort to get them as close as possible and a data table for tuners to match them.

Here's the problem. Once the tuner starts tuning/adjusting, the tables are merely there to get the tuner as CLOSE as possible to start off and then have predictable adjustments (so they're not hunting and bracketing all over the place trying to dial you in). Put another way, the tuner doesn't NEED the data tables. They can start blindly and tune the car in. Hell, they don't really even need the injectors to match from one to another, (although having them all match on a bank simplifies matters). Point is, ID was right to get ass hurt that another company was stealing their data/tables and publishing it as their own. From a very obscure standpoint, they were "stealing" the time and money they had invested into the process. However, from a distant standpoint, if what you were doing was so crucial in the first place, the fact that someone was piggy backing you would become apparent very quickly. If it doesn't, then there's your answer (i.e. if someone can fake being you, then you're not all you thought you were in the first place.)

If someone owns a business making the best tacos in town and their lead chef leaves and opens his own business making tacos. THAT is simply how the world works. There are some things that you just can't "protect." Either you provide something valuable beyond a secret recipe or you don't. And if you do, you need not go around whining about it, your customers will recognize it. If you don't, your customers won't be able to notice without you moaning about it and there's your answer. You're not as special or exclusive as you thought you were.

Same could be said for engine building, transmission building/assembling, whatevs. If you're truly as good as you think you are, it'll show through. If it doesn't and you bitch about it, well, that's evidence that you're not as special in reality as you are in your own mind.

 

[SolarFlare]

I do have a couple of unlocked Lund tunes. They are nothing special. In fact they are really simple, almost ingeniously so.

If I were to sell this tune as mine, that would be morally wrong, but nothing could be done legally.

I have no problem using what I learned from looking at these tunes and figuring why he does what he does, then using what I like about it and discarding what I do not like.

well well well

I love how “Lund ain’t shit” but everyone gotta get their hands on Lund tunes. Then they learn what they need then “Lund ain’t shit” again

 

[K4fxd]

I love how “Lund ain’t shit” but everyone gotta get their hands on Lund tunes. Then they learn what they need then “Lund ain’t shit” again

I have all kinds of tunes, I learn something from each one. However I learn nothing until I try stuff and find out what it does.

From the Lund tunes I only use the idle speed settings

I like the car to drive like stock or better, so I keep the CMCV's, so out the window goes Lund's part throttle VCT's along with his borderline spark and torque tables.

See where this is going??

 

[SolarFlare]

I have all kinds of tunes, I learn something from each one. However I learn nothing until I try stuff and find out what it does.

From the Lund tunes I only use the idle speed settings

I like the car to drive like stock or better, so I keep the CMCV's, so out the window goes Lund's part throttle VCT's along with his borderline spark and torque tables.

See where this is going??

you've gone through the work of getting your hands on 3 lund files, and you're a huge critic of lund in public. I dont care what you claim to use from them.

 

[K4fxd]

My criticism of Lund has always been his customer service and attitude toward customers. Also his refusal to help trouble shoot problems.

Dissecting the other companies products is a normal part of business.

My Wife is an executive with a cosmetic company. They spend millions taking apart the competitions products.

I am not in the tuning business nor will I ever be.

 

[mejohn50]

The tuning drama on this platform is weird.

 

[Cordero1]

But, entertaining.

 

[Angrey]

The tuning drama on this platform is weird.

Yes, but no one has laid out what causes the coyote tick

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