GT350R Wing's Downforce?

[Wildcardfox]

Thanks for the information! I searched everywhere and couldn't find it. I read your article on paint protection and I'm having it done next week. The front window and front end for $1,500. Unfortunately, I already got a small rock chip on the plastic nose the first day I got the car (it was on the return 300 mile road trip). I planned to just do a quick touch up, but since I have the magnetic grey (paint color J7) the touch up doesn't match! Its almost black. So I guess I'll live with it - which will drive me crazy. Yeah I could get it painted first, but another delay in driving it! Errr

We’ll rock chips will happen. No stopping that. We just try to minimize them if we can. So don’t sweat the chip.

$1500 is a good price for the entire front and the windshield.

I go back now and again and add protection to more areas when I see fit.

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[FLETCshooter]

We’ll rock chips will happen. No stopping that. We just try to minimize them if we can. So don’t sweat the chip.

$1500 is a good price for the entire front and the windshield.

I go back now and again and add protection to more areas when I see fit.

Thanks. I just posted a thread to see if anyone has a quick fix for the paint chip. I sorta have OCD when it comes to my cars.

 

[mrbillwot]

My articles.

300 was from my 2020 GT500 article. They didn’t state.

www.hotrod.com/articles/2020-gt500-2019-shelby-bash/amp/

Other numbers are from a yet to be released article comparing the 2019 GT350 to the GT350R.

Any drag numbers to go with this? Gurney is supposed to be a win in that regard. Is also why the reports of road debris damage from MY19's having it in place doesn't add up (not that my eng degree is in aerodynamics but still I know the VK vortex street should be well behind the tail end and shouldn't be making any a big rear panel vacuum).

 

[Wildcardfox]

Any drag numbers to go with this? Gurney is supposed to be a win in that regard. Is also why the reports of road debris damage from MY19's having it in place doesn't add up (not that my eng degree is in aerodynamics but still I know the VK vortex street should be well behind the tail end and shouldn't be making any a big rear panel vacuum).

More downforce always equal more drag, so the inverse is true: less downforce equals less drag, so a wingless car would have the less drag over a winged car. In terms of the swing it provides less drag and less downforce vs the larger downforce producing wings.

I cannot speak on the particular issue that you are having with your car and rocks as I know nothing about that.

 

[Hack]

More downforce always equal more drag, so the inverse is true: less downforce equals less drag, so a wingless car would have the less drag over a winged car. In terms of the swing it provides less drag and less downforce vs the larger downforce producing wings.

I cannot speak on the particular issue that you are having with your car and rocks as I know nothing about that.

More downforce does not necessarily equate to more drag. It depends on how efficient the shapes are at doing their jobs.

 

[Wildcardfox]

More downforce does not necessarily equate to more drag. It depends on how efficient the shapes are at doing their jobs.

Post an example please.

 

[Hack]

Post an example please.

The Gurney flap is more efficient at producing downforce without as much drag compared to the shapes that pre-date it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurney_flap

Just think of any random wing like shape. Some are better than others.

 

[nastang87xx]

Post an example please.

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/wings-spoilers-youre-probably-doing-it-wrong-1665312667

There are cases where spoilers can actually IMPROVE drag coefficient while producing down force. It just depends but depends on many many different factors.

 

[Hack]

It just depends but depends on many many different factors.

I was trying to say that as well. Mostly my belief is that aerodynamics are complicated and rarely intuitive.

I was probably being overly anal about it though. More down force = more drag is probably a good general rule of thumb.

 

[Tomster]

There are two types of drag when talking about a wing. Parasitic and induced. Parasitic drag is when the wing encounters the wind and creates resistance based upon its profile. Induced drag is drag created as a byproduct of lift production. The GT350R wing is a fixed angle of attack wing that engineers designed for optimal downforce for most track conditions. All tracks are not the same and the GT350R wing is optimized for average speeds for turns to produce the most downforce. Now, take the Daytona rolex 24 course for example. Most of the track is run outside on the banks and the straits. In these conditions, the wing is a detriment because it is hanging out there in the stream producing both parasitic and induced drag. Basically, the wind under those conditions is slowing the car down and keeping it from reaching a higher top speed. However, on the inside course, the wing is producing downward lift to help maintain traction to help the car stay planted.

The spoiler works just the opposite. Bernoulli's principle states that the faster a fluid (air) moves over a body, the less sideways pressure is exerted (lift). As a car moves through the air, it moves faster over the top than it does the bottom. The shape of the car is essentially an airfoil that produces upward lift. A spoiler "spoils" lift by redirecting airflow and disrupts the airstream moving over the car. This helps keep the car planted by reducing the car's natural lift produced by speed through the airstream. The wing, on the other hand, does just the opposite. As described above, it takes advantage of the airstream and uses it to produce downward lift.

Now, the argument at hand is which is better? They both do different jobs under different conditions. The absolute best scenario would be a self adjusting wing that was built for high speeds that could be varied (by changing the angle of attack) under different driving conditions. For instance.... You are in an airplane and for takeoff and landing, you see the flaps out. Doing this changes the shape of the wing and the amount of lift a wing can produce. Sometimes you want a wing to produce high lift at low speeds (takeoff and landing). During cruise flight, you want the cleanest wing possible to reduce the parasitic drag to an absolute minimum. Now, anyone who has been on an airplane during landing has seen the speed brakes come after touchdown. The speed brakes are nothing but spoilers. They spoil lift to get the weight of the airplane on the wheels have positive contact with the runway so that the brakes have maximum effectiveness.

Which is better? the argument can be answered by looking around at which cars have spoilers and which have wings. Generally speaking, you get the best cornering ability from a car with a wing. Again, this is taking aerodynamic forces and creating a positive downward pressure to keep the car planted. The spoiler simply reduces lift to help in the same effect.

Nobody can ascertain how much downward force a wing produces without the engineering data. You need to know area of the wing, angle of attack, air density, etc. Unless ford provides the specifics or the actual test data, it turns into a guestimate based upon your own measurements. I could probably reverse engineer it, but what's the point?

 

[svttim]

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/wings-spoilers-youre-probably-doing-it-wrong-1665312667

There are cases where spoilers can actually IMPROVE drag coefficient while producing down force. It just depends but depends on many many different factors.

Not so fast Obi Wan. Reading your article, I does not really talk about adding downforce with a spoiler. It talks about reducing lift as compared to no spoiler. If you add downforce, there will be a penalty. Interesting stuff and Im no aero expert. Now, what effect does the new Swing have

 

[nastang87xx]

It talks about reducing lift as compared to no spoiler.

That's a good point, reducing lift and adding down force are not the same thing. 100lbs of lift + 50lbs of down force = 50lbs in the wrong direction still.

 

[Tomster]

Not so fast Obi Wan. Reading your article, I does not really talk about adding downforce with a spoiler. It talks about reducing lift as compared to no spoiler. If you add downforce, there will be a penalty. Interesting stuff and Im no aero expert. Now, what effect does the new Swing have

The swing is both a spoiler and a wing. Pretty good idea if you ask me. Partial lift, and partial reduction of lift. Somewhere the Ford engineers determined that a percentage of lift vs a percentage of spoil would create an overall positive effect. The swing seems to me that you get the top end speed benefits of less induced and parasitic drag, and some downward lift at cornering speeds.

Brilliant.

 

[Tomster]

My degree is in aeronautics if that wasn't obvious.

 

[mrbillwot]

I cannot speak on the particular issue that you are having with your car and rocks as I know nothing about that.

They are not my problems. They were a cause & effect someone else suspected. As I said I found it doubtful specifically because of how a wicker works.

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