Fuel System Mods for E85

[KPM Fuel Systems]

@KPM Fuel Systems

I was wondering if you guys had plans to address the fuel filter issue on your more affordable module options for the GT? Can your upgraded 1/2" line and filter be purchased with the 800-1000hp Modules, or as a stand-alone purchase? How about a fuel filter and bracket in the engine bay that would just intercept the fuel feed tube to the fuel rail?

I don't think the filter socks alone on the pumps are adequate for the DI system considering the requirement for such fine filtration.






I totally agree. The pick up socks are not meant for fine filtering to the DI pump and/or injectors. They are only for pre-pump filtering . KPM recommend that a post fuel pump filter is utilized with our fuel systems.
We have a post pump easy fit filter kit penciled in for development this year.
Unfortunately it keeps getting held back by our other new vehicle model developments.

Our 5/8" direct fit stainless steel quick connect fuel line kit does incorporate a 10 micron lifetime filter. At this stage we only supply it with our 2200hp and 2700hp kits.
We never intended to sell it seperately due to our intentions of developing a filter only kit for the smaller fuel systems.
However if we continue to drag our feet on this we may have to.

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[KPM Fuel Systems]

So now you all have me wondering if I can go E85 (actually sold around here as E51-83 flex)… wanted to originally but got the impression from wengerd that I’d need a major fuel system investment.

ESS G3 120 pulley, Vortech BAP, GT500 injectors and everything else is stock. Am I understanding that Wengerd could do an E51-83 tune for me with this hardware?

Have you considered our KPM Fuel System. Depending on the power level you need to support, it is an easy 20 min remove and fit. Nothing else to do.
It will have all the a manners of an OE system, and you can drive it all the way to empty as normal or at high speeds. NO SURGE on long left hand racetrack sweepers and solid delivery at the dragstrip.

 

[NGOT8R]

@KPM Fuel Systems

I was wondering if you guys had plans to address the fuel filter issue on your more affordable module options for the GT? Can your upgraded 1/2" line and filter be purchased with the 800-1000hp Modules, or as a stand-alone purchase? How about a fuel filter and bracket in the engine bay that would just intercept the fuel feed tube to the fuel rail?

I don't think the filter socks alone on the pumps are adequate for the DI system considering the requirement for such fine filtration.

That 1/2” line install is gonna be a huge PITA. Having removed my entire factory fuel line and installed E85 compatible rubber line, it was challenging with the tank in place. I was able to do the install by dropping the left side of the tank.

I would imagine to replace the hard line period would require dropping the subframe and tank for proper access. If a person doesn’t mind that extra work, then the 1/2” setup would be nice.

 

[jcm3]

I have the radium bucket which I like but it does have some flaws. One that was explained here is at a little below 1/4 tank of fuel it will drop fuel pressure very fast while wot and the car will lean out, under normal driving you can drive it to empty. Basically for me I know that at 1/4 tank left I can do 2 more quick wot blasts after that I just cruise until I can refuel.

Good info.

 

[SheepDog]

That 1/2” line install is gonna be a huge PITA. Having removed my entire factory fuel line and installed E85 compatible rubber line, it was challenging with the tank in place. I was able to do the install by dropping the left side of the tank.

I would imagine to replace the hard line period would require dropping the subframe and tank for proper access. If a person doesn’t mind that extra work, then the 1/2” setup would be nice.

Agreed, however it is currently the only "bolt on" option to adding a serviceable fuel filter while still maintaining the OEM connections and hard line. The KPM 800-1500 HP systems remove the factory GT filter which is in the bucket in exchange for the second pump, but do not provide a solution to replace it. The other option might be sourcing the OEM fuel lines and filter for a GT350/500, but the same install issue exists.

Sure, you can just run a new feed line and use AN fittings and incorporate a filter, but that sort of negates the "plug and play" feature that is the ultimate goal.

 

[SheepDog]

We have a post pump easy fit filter kit penciled in for development this year.

This would be a game changer for people on the fence about buying your more affordable options. Most people in this Mustang and the F150 communities aren't looking to make anywhere near 2200 HP, nor do they have the tools, space and experience to replace the entire fuel hard line. The other issue is, with these high compression engines and Forced Induction, you really can't get much more than about 700 WHP on pump gas, so using E85 is pretty much mandatory for anyone trying to go above that number safely.

Please consider selling this filter kit, as well as the larger line and filter kit as stand alone options. People like me and the Engineer love fixing things that aren't broken.

Any plans to develop a Brushless pump and controller setup? Your improved 4 venturi bucket, with a DW810 brushless pump in it, and an engine bay mounted serviceable filter would be the ultimate setup. We have already proven that this pump can be ran on the OEM FPCM power, ground, and PWM FPC signal. No need for extra wiring or larger fuel line to support 1000HP on E85.

 

[SheepDog]

Do you have any data to support this? I emailed radium before I bought my setup and they said i would not have any issues with fuel starvation. I haven’t seen and drop off in fuel pressure or lean in the data even at 1/8th of a tank. Im not trying to be negative just wondering if there is data some one can share.

how much boost are you running?
What size injectors?


I think that it depends on how much fuel you are trying to move, and how much fuel your engine is consuming. There is probably a threshold or break even point (X volume leaving the bucket) where the pumps are able to empty the bucket faster than the fuel can be replaced in low fuel conditions. This is why KPM went to such great lengths to completely redesign their bucket and include 4 venturis.

The data I have is based off of the other testing being done over here - https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...tory-fpdm-control.212608/page-24#post-4290323

However I don't have exact numbers to share.

 

[beefcake]

We have a few different fuel systems available. Fore is a great kit that comes with everything you need with options to upgrade in the future! KDM is also another option but it all depends on goals and power level with the car.


Feel free to DM me or call with any questions!
Terry "Beefcake" Reeves
- 855-827-7223 -
www.beefcakeracing.com
#beefcakeracing #teambeefcake

 

[Basspro302]

how much boost are you running?
What size injectors?


I think that it depends on how much fuel you are trying to move, and how much fuel your engine is consuming. There is probably a threshold or break even point (X volume leaving the bucket) where the pumps are able to empty the bucket faster than the fuel can be replaced in low fuel conditions. This is why KPM went to such great lengths to completely redesign their bucket and include 4 venturis.

The data I have is based off of the other testing being done over here - https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...tory-fpdm-control.212608/page-24#post-4290323

However I don't have exact numbers to share.

Id1000s and stock gdi injectors/pump. I have 2 285s and its full return -8 feed -6 return ( the arcane kit). My car traps 147-151 depending on the da. I will do some more logs when I get low fuel and check. I would probably go with kpm if i could do
It again. The radium bucket holds a ton of fuel compared to the stock basket, probably why i’m not seeing any issues in the quarter mile.

 

[Basspro302]

I have the radium bucket which I like but it does have some flaws. One that was explained here is at a little below 1/4 tank of fuel it will drop fuel pressure very fast while wot and the car will lean out, under normal driving you can drive it to empty. Basically for me I know that at 1/4 tank left I can do 2 more quick wot blasts after that I just cruise until I can refuel.

I haven’t experienced that, i will do some more logs and check see how low i can go.

 

[SheepDog]

Id1000s and stock gdi injectors/pump. I have 2 285s and its full return -8 feed -6 return ( the arcane kit). My car traps 147-151 depending on the da. I will do some more logs when I get low fuel and check. I would probably go with kpm if i could do
It again. The radium bucket holds a ton of fuel compared to the stock basket, probably why i’m not seeing any issues in the quarter mile.

and when the tank is full, or near full I wouldn't expect any issues, and obviously no one is flogging their car when the tank is down below a 1/4 anyway (or at lest they shouldn't be, regardless of fuel system).

That being said, Ford and KPM went the extra mile by designing a venturi system that also fills the bucket, from the drivers side as well as the passenger side - something that Radium or DW Did not do.

One exception to this might be the VMP module, but I can't tell from the photos how the venturi is working, or if they modified an OEM 5.2 lower bucket.

https://www.vmpperformance.com/VMP-Plug-and-Play-Return-Style-Fuel-System-for-2018-Mustang

 

[cbrtrx]

I haven’t experienced that, i will do some more logs and check see how low i can go.

Yeah let us know. I have 2 274 pumps with the supplied radium filter socks. I never cared for how the filter socks were very close to one of the mushroom valves I feel it should have been designed better there. I wondered if that could cause issues under higher G forces with suction from the pump and the valve not closing and fuel possibly leaving the bucket. Also like mentioned it only refills the bucket off of what returns. My car is an A10 and I'd estimate around 850 rwhp. I could make say a 3rd gear only pass which is really nothing but it would drop wot pressure very fast after that at anything much below a 1/4 tank.

When I had the dw400 in the stock bucket and a bap I could run it very low with no issues there but I was really outgrowing that system especially in cooler weather.

Overall I'm happy with the setup I made using the radium bucket, it's super simple and has worked well for me, I just don't race it below a 1/4 tank.

 

[Pistol_91]

Yeah let us know. I have 2 274 pumps with the supplied radium filter socks. I never cared for how the filter socks were very close to one of the mushroom valves I feel it should have been designed better there. I wondered if that could cause issues under higher G forces with suction from the pump and the valve not closing and fuel possibly leaving the bucket. Also like mentioned it only refills the bucket off of what returns. My car is an A10 and I'd estimate around 850 rwhp. I could make say a 3rd gear only pass which is really nothing but it would drop wot pressure very fast after that at anything much below a 1/4 tank.

When I had the dw400 in the stock bucket and a bap I could run it very low with no issues there but I was really outgrowing that system especially in cooler weather.

Overall I'm happy with the setup I made using the radium bucket, it's super simple and has worked well for me, I just don't race it below a 1/4 tank.

What exactly is your set up now? I currently run a dw400 and a nap but might want to downsize pulleys soon. Currently on the 120.

 

[cbrtrx]

What exactly is your set up now? I currently run a dw400 and a nap but might want to downsize pulleys soon. Currently on the 120.

I have the radium with 2 274s deadhead with the crossover to stabilize banks like I talked to you about before. The car has enough fuel now, it has gone lower 4s 60 to 130 which is equivalent to about 154+ mph trap.

 

[jcm3]

Great info guys, enjoying reading all of it.

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