"expected" weight gain

[pacettr]

Not at all, I'm arguing that there were no standards back at that time. Ford could put out a match box with wheels and sell it, thus a 4 seater weighing less than a 2 seater corvette would certainly be doable. Can you find crash ratings for 80's automobiles to compare the Fox Bodies to the C4 vets? I'm not even sure if your car had airbags. What were the child restrictions at that time? I was brought home in a Nissan 240z with my dad driving and my mom holding me in the passenger seat - and I don't think they were breaking the law.

With the standards we have today no automaker can put out cars like that and hit a good price. The C7, rightfully so, is a good bit lighter than these new Mustangs. Pointing to your 1988 death trap as evidence that Ford can make a ultra light 4 seater mustang isn't very convincing. We actually have standards today and the C7 can get out of some of those standards because it doesn't have a back seat.



Yea I understand, but no amount of napkin math is going to convince Ford (or me) differently. They have a target audience who, on average, makes x amount of dollars and they need to come in at a specific price range. If you think differently, feel free to write Ford and see if you can change their minds.

But you'd lose me as a customer if you went up too high. I'm willing to pay up to around 34-35k, anything beyond that and I'm done. And I'm not paying that for a base model either. I've noticed a lot of posters here are worried about whether or not the upcoming price jump will allow them to get a V8 or force them to get the eco4.

:clap2:

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[Mercedestech77]

On a cool note we have a lot of serious racers as customers bringing in their GT3's with full sponsor liveries buying new $600 Mich Cup tires once a month or so.

Sorry for the off topic![/QUOTE]

Hey I work for Brumos but on the mercedes side. Small world.

 

[Taneras]

This is an interesting point for a hypothetical question:

Let's say the GT was 3600 lbs, but the EB4 was 3300 lbs. Which would you choose? Is the weight difference enough to drive you from the V8 version to the 4-cylinder?

I personally would rather have the V8 saddled with the extra 300 lbs (at least, that's my choice without actually feeling the difference between these theoretical choices).

-T

I feel the same way. The extra price and weight (when compared to the eco4) isn't enough to deter me from getting a V8. This new 5.0 is going to be a monster. With the new upgraded boss internals people are going to be able to boost these engines even higher.

I'm not looking to keep a 2015 GT stock. I'm looking to push 600+rwhp out of it. I'm not sure what kind of ceiling the eco 4 will have as far as hp/tq goes, but I can't imagine its the same as the new 5.0's. That in itself is the decision maker.

 

[VIN666]

I feel the same way. The extra price and weight (when compared to the eco4) isn't enough to deter me from getting a V8. This new 5.0 is going to be a monster. With the new upgraded boss internals people are going to be able to boost these engines even higher.

I'm not looking to keep a 2015 GT stock. I'm looking to push 600+rwhp out of it. I'm not sure what kind of ceiling the eco 4 will have as far as hp/tq goes, but I can't imagine its the same as the new 5.0's. That in itself is the decision maker.

I'm in the exact same boat.
If the EB 2.3 is anything like the SRT4 2.4, 500 Hp should be no problem.
All depends on aftermarket support.
The 5.0 on the other hand, will easily make 800... so...
Tough choice. Really comes down to your use case and what the 5.0 really ends up weighing.

 

[Rob]

I'm in the exact same boat.
If the EB 2.3 is anything like the SRT4 2.4, 500 Hp should be no problem.
All depends on aftermarket support.
The 5.0 on the other hand, will easily make 800... so...
Tough choice. Really comes down to your use case and what the 5.0 really ends up weighing.

500 or 800 hp in a street car is pointless.

 

[Taneras]

500 or 800 hp in a street car is pointless.

Why do you think that?

 

[Thed]

500 or 800 hp in a street car is pointless.

800 yeah, but 500 no.

 

[Whiskey11]

Let's say the GT was 3600 lbs, but the EB4 was 3300 lbs. Which would you choose? Is the weight difference enough to drive you from the V8 version to the 4-cylinder?
-T

I'd choose the 2.3L all day every day. Don't get me wrong, I love the sound of my 4.6L 3V, even through stock exhaust, but at this point my "needs" have transcended something as simple as how the car sounds. I need a light weight, reasonably powerful and torquey car and a 3600lb GT is too heavy and too powerful for where I want my car to be. I'll take the better fuel efficiency as an added bonus.

I'll be honest, the GT will have to weigh less than the turbo 4 for me to really consider it at this point and I just don't see it happening.

 

[Rob]

Why do you think that?

You can't drive a 500 or an 800 hp car on the street like its meant to be driven. It's like bringing an Abrams tank to a pistol match. To be fair its not necessarily about the hp number so much as it is about the performance level. You could have a commercial truck for instance that 400 or 500 hp but that is big heavy vehicle that is designed to carry heavy loads.

The hp wars have reached a point where its like "What now?" Where do we quit? When Toyota Camry's can hit 60 mph in 2.5 seconds? We've already reached a point where a lot of these cars are too much for the average driver. Pretty much anything above 300 hp is far more than you need for street driving. It's not that I'm advocating for cars to have the hp levels reduced. I'm just pointing out the obvious. A lot of guys out there get all excited about the prospect of owning a 500 or more hp car when the truth of the matter is they aren't really capable of driving it and even if they were you can't really legally drive it like its meant to be driven.

 

[Taneras]

You can't drive a 500 or an 800 hp car on the street like its meant to be driven. It's like bringing an Abrams tank to a pistol match. To be fair its not necessarily about the hp number so much as it is about the performance level. You could have a commercial truck for instance that 400 or 500 hp but that is big heavy vehicle that is designed to carry heavy loads.

The hp wars have reached a point where its like "What now?" Where do we quit? When Toyota Camry's can hit 60 mph in 2.5 seconds? We've already reached a point where a lot of these cars are too much for the average driver. Pretty much anything above 300 hp is far more than you need for street driving. It's not that I'm advocating for cars to have the hp levels reduced. I'm just pointing out the obvious. A lot of guys out there get all excited about the prospect of owning a 500 or more hp car when the truth of the matter is they aren't really capable of driving it and even if they were you can't really legally drive it like its meant to be driven.

My lightly modded 460ish (395ishrwhp) car performs just fine on the street. Just don't punch it in a turn or on a wet road and you're golden.

I get what you're saying that there comes a point where hp becomes useless on the street I just don't think 500 is that amount. Lots of guys pushing more and doing just fine.

 

[thePill]

Ford's weight loss goal was 200lbs on the Mustang in 2011-'12. Later, Ford said all vehicle curb weights would be reduced by 10% by 2016. That would be like 360lbs...

Now, if they said that their weight loss goals were met, I would assume they lost the weight they were looking for. I say 10% may be a little harse but, is that extra 160lbs in there somewhere and will be pulled out later?

I believe the EB4 will drop the lowest weight down from the 2014's V6 at 3501 down to 3300-ish. It will also be up on HP, TQ, MPG and MSRP vs. the V6 but, thats a pretty sweet package if true.

Can the GT get in the 3400lbs range? I hope they made an effort... It hasn't been a let down so far...

There is a long shot possibility that Ford is making Fastback and Convertible body shells separately. Sometimes, coupes are made to take on unwanted convertible weight... Some structures have an additional layer of sheet metal pressed and welded between the existing layers. The 2011 Camaro Convertible used this process... The coupes took on an additional 30-50lbs just in that layer alone.

 

[Thed]

Ford's weight loss goal was 200lbs on the Mustang in 2011-'12. Later, Ford said all vehicle curb weights would be reduced by 10% by 2016. That would be like 360lbs...

Now, if they said that their weight loss goals were met, I would assume they lost the weight they were looking for. I say 10% may be a little harse but, is that extra 160lbs in there somewhere and will be pulled out later?

I believe the EB4 will drop the lowest weight down from the 2014's V6 at 3501 down to 3300-ish. It will also be up on HP, TQ, MPG and MSRP vs. the V6 but, thats a pretty sweet package if true.

Can the GT get in the 3400lbs range? I hope they made an effort... It hasn't been a let down so far...

There is a long shot possibility that Ford is making Fastback and Convertible body shells separately. Sometimes, coupes are made to take on unwanted convertible weight... Some structures have an additional layer of sheet metal pressed and welded between the existing layers. The 2011 Camaro Convertible used this process... The coupes took on an additional 30-50lbs just in that layer alone.

Try 3200 LBS

 

[Trackaholic]

Ford's weight loss goal was 200lbs on the Mustang in 2011-'12. Later, Ford said all vehicle curb weights would be reduced by 10% by 2016. That would be like 360lbs...

Now, if they said that their weight loss goals were met, I would assume they lost the weight they were looking for. I say 10% may be a little harse but, is that extra 160lbs in there somewhere and will be pulled out later?

I believe the EB4 will drop the lowest weight down from the 2014's V6 at 3501 down to 3300-ish. It will also be up on HP, TQ, MPG and MSRP vs. the V6 but, thats a pretty sweet package if true.

Can the GT get in the 3400lbs range? I hope they made an effort... It hasn't been a let down so far...

There is a long shot possibility that Ford is making Fastback and Convertible body shells separately. Sometimes, coupes are made to take on unwanted convertible weight... Some structures have an additional layer of sheet metal pressed and welded between the existing layers. The 2011 Camaro Convertible used this process... The coupes took on an additional 30-50lbs just in that layer alone.

I think people are nervous because Ford is being coy with the weight, only saying that they've met their goals. I personally don't know what those goals are (I've only heard rumors), so I'm trying to keep my expectations low so I'll be fine if the weight stays the same but pleasantly surprised if the weight drops.

I really do hope you are right about the weight loss, because a 3400 lbs GT would be pretty sweet all things considered. But, gotta keep telling myself that it's unlikely.

Another thing is that Ford is doing a reveal similar to what GM did for the C7 Vette. They are showing the car, but not giving out many performance details or specs. GM was also very coy with the weight of the C7 - early rumors had it losing weight - and GM was quick to hype the increased stiffness and reduced weight of the frame. But when the final numbers were revealed, the car actually gained 100 lbs or so.

I followed the C7 closely because it is competing with the Mustang for my next purchase, so I may be a little suspicious of Ford due to the experience with the Vette. GM also mentioned "at least" 450 HP many times, and then the LT1 made 455 or 460 depending on exhaust choice. Many people were let down with this as well, given how small the HP improvements were over the LS3 and how significant the engine updates were. In this too, Ford is following GM closely, talking only about 420+ HP from the new Coyote engine. They are adding many things from the RoadRunner, but at the same time not changing the redline, so I wonder how much the power upgrade will end up being.

Contrast with BMW who just released the info on the new M3 and M4, with basically full specs and sure enough, managed to bring the cars in @ 3300 lbs (although I expect that number to be higher when cars with all the options are weighed by magazines). Seems like they just kept things quiet, got all their engineering done, them bam! - Here's the goods. Haven't followed the release of those cars though, so maybe the rampant speculation was the same on Bimmer forums as it is here for the Mustang.

Anyway, it is a bit fun to have this info unknown, because it spurs fun discussions like this one.

-T

 

[Trackaholic]

I'd choose the 2.3L all day every day. Don't get me wrong, I love the sound of my 4.6L 3V, even through stock exhaust, but at this point my "needs" have transcended something as simple as how the car sounds. I need a light weight, reasonably powerful and torquey car and a 3600lb GT is too heavy and too powerful for where I want my car to be. I'll take the better fuel efficiency as an added bonus.

I'll be honest, the GT will have to weigh less than the turbo 4 for me to really consider it at this point and I just don't see it happening.

Yeah, for autoX (especially competitive) the rules can really pigeon hole a choice. I do a bunch of track days, but just for fun, so for me the added power and lack of turbo is a benefit. The weight is a negative, but it's more of a sliding scale, so I don't really have a cutoff. That said, my 350Z I think was about 3250 lbs so I may change my tune after driving a heavier Mustang.

I'm actually bit surprised you'd want to AutoX a turbo though. I love AutoX in my Z, but I tried a friend's BMW 335, and even though the power was better, the turbo lag was horrible. I guess one would adapt if they owned the car, but I still get bothered by the lag in my GTI and I've driven it for 50,000 miles.

It's possible I'm a very slow learner. :doh:

-T

 

[thePill]

Try 3200 LBS

I hope what you hear is correct.

If you think about it, 10% of the 2014 V6's 3501lbs is 350lbs.

Can the EB4 weigh 3151lbs?

If it can, then it won't surprise me if the GT's were right around 3400lbs (3360-3440lbs).

I have always heard the Ecoboost car was going to be light. I figured if the car came in at or around 3200lbs, the GT would be in the 3420lbs range (3301lbs for the V6).

That's is

a.) The 10% weight loss was met on the MPG/base model.

b.) The 200lbs goal was met for Team Mustang (GT level).

c.) Potential for more weight loss in the future.

I know a lot of people base weight loss from platform to platform on wheelbase/track.

The car looks 500lbs lighter... I heard it moves like it did too...

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