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"expected" weight gain

KZStang

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Where did all the weight savings rumors actually originate?
1. Edmunds with its complete nonsense:

"There is going to be less overhang" in the front, rear and on the sides of the Mustang, the source said. "The overall length will be something like 8 percent (approximately 15 inches) shorter," the source said. The 2014 Mustang is 188.5 inches in length and rides on a 107.1-inch wheelbase. "The width will be a little less than 10 percent (about 6.5 inches) narrower," the source said. The 2014 model is 73.9 inches wide. As for materials "they are going to use more aluminum, better structural engineering in terms of spot welds and so on and so forth, basically using less material and making it stronger," the source said. However, there is "nothing terribly exotic" in terms of materials..
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=671&page=3


2. Ford's general statements about weight loss throughout its lineup.

“In the mid-term, from now to 2017 or 2018, we’ll remove anywhere from 250 to 700 pounds depending on the vehicle,” said Derrick Kuzak, Ford’s global product chief.

The move attempts to reverse course for Ford, which has faced the same dilemma as its competitors. The typical automobile is today hundreds of pounds heavier than a similar model of a decade ago. That reflects the addition of such creature comforts as onboard navigation systems, 15-speak audio packages and heated leather seats – as well as airbags, advanced braking systems and the complex safety structures required of modern cars.

Though it’s more of a guideline than a hard rule, the traditional consensus was that every 100 pounds added or removed from a vehicle translates into a mile per gallon difference in mileage, so Ford’s target could translate into significant savings in fuel.

It’s possible to find ways to slice out weight in an existing product, noted Kuzak, during a dinner conversation, like switching from a steel body panel to one made of aluminum or plastic. But to make truly major gains, “Weight reduction starts with new platforms,” the overall redesign of a vehicle, he stressed.

Ford’s former British subsidiary, Jaguar, was one of the more aggressive players in the weight reduction game, switching a number of models, such as the new XJ, from steel to lighter aluminum chasses and bodies. Ford has considered a similar approach for some of its products though the cost has been an obstacle.

Now, the industry is taking a close look at what could be the ultimate alternative to steel: carbon fiber, an extraordinarily strong and ultra-light material commonly used in Formula One race cars and a select group of road-going supercars from brands like Ferrari and Lamborghini. “Carbon fiber has potential if we can come up with ways to improve manufacturability and bring down costs,” cautioned Ford’s engineering czar Kuzak.

That’s a major challenge but one many believe is attainable. Toyota experimented with a new method of weaving the fabric-based carbon fiber for its Lexus LF-A supercar. BMW, meanwhile, has invested in carbon fiber production with the goal of coming up with new ways to mass produce the material.

One of the good things about cutting vehicle weight – by whatever method – is that it generates what Kuzak calls “secondary benefits.” Strip 500 pounds out of a midsize SUV he suggests, and you can migrate from a big V8 to a smaller V6, or perhaps even a four-cylinder version of Ford’s new EcoBoost powertrains.
http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2011/04/ford-planning-to-slash-vehicle-weight-up-to-700-lbs/
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Stevefreestyle

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I understand that. Weight distribution probably is going to be better. But the car getting even heavier would have me looking elsewhere. I don't need a coupe that outweighs my AWD sedan.
I understood the GT was LOOSING 200 lbs. Notwithstanding that, its about Power to Weight (and Torque) Ratios..which also significantly enhances driving dynamics...and fun !
 

Dirk McGurck

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I understood the GT was LOOSING 200 lbs. Notwithstanding that, its about Power to Weight (and Torque) Ratios..which also significantly enhances driving dynamics...and fun !
That doesn't matter to a lot of people here, hence this long thread.

I still stand by my earlier statement: If half here want it to weigh less and the other half don't care either way, why not make it weigh less?
 

Stevefreestyle

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That doesn't matter to a lot of people here, hence this long thread.

I still stand by my earlier statement: If half here want it to weigh less and the other half don't care either way, why not make it weigh less?
Because it will improve the Power to Weight Ratio, and therefore Driving Dynamics and Performance, which I think would be a safe assumption is the primary interest of most people here - including me.
 

Whiskey11

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We are assuming that an IRS is heavier but we honestly don't know that. From what I've seen of the undersides, the only cross members I am seeing are holding the differential up. but are not necessarily heavy... the upright is aluminum, the lower arm is aluminum, the upper arm is god knows what, probably stamped steel (not heavy, not light either) and the cross members for the diff don't exactly scream heavy either.

I wouldn't be surprised if it weighed exactly the same as a live axle. The drive shaft will be lighter too. Might end up a wash with the half shafts being slightly heavier, we DON'T know, we are just assuming. It certainly doesn't look that heavy of a unit, certainly not as heavy as a live axle looks. I can't wait for the aftermarket to start "weighing" it all.

That said, there are dozens of different areas to lose weight, higher strength steels need less thickness for the same strength and are generally lighter weight, aluminum body paneling, gram theory, etc. I really hope the GT loses 200lbs and that the EB4 weighs a "lofty" 3200-3300lbs, Ford will have my business if it is.
 

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GTsquid

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That doesn't matter to a lot of people here, hence this long thread.

I still stand by my earlier statement: If half here want it to weigh less and the other half don't care either way, why not make it weigh less?
I want it to be lighter too, but is that a serious question?

Because bean counters.
Because budgets.
Because the Mustang needs to stay affordable.
Because Ford has to balance between those that want a lighter car and those that want every feature under the sun.

Also keep in mind half the people here are still half of enthusiasts. We're not exactly representative of the majority of people they sell to.
 

scottpe

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Because it will improve the Power to Weight Ratio, and therefore Driving Dynamics and Performance, which I think would be a safe assumption is the primary interest of most people here - including me.
Well, regardless of the weight, they have already promised that the new GT will outrun the current Boss on the track (one quote said the Laguna Seca version even). That's a pretty remarkable improvement in "driving dynamics and performance" I'd say...
 

Pitch

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Pfft....but it'll gain 100 pounds, so I'm gonna start looking at other cars. Because that is just downright absurd

Who am I?

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pacettr

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edit:
Here's some more food for thought:

2013 Fusion Ti 2WD vs 2013 Mustang base V6

Length 191.7 vs 188.5

Body width 72.9 vs 73.9

Body height 58.1 vs 55.8

Curb weight 3,427lbs vs 3,501lbs

That's a fully loaded Fusion against a base Mustang. Add AWD to the fusion and it still weighs less than a GT. Sure it's not quite a fair comparison, but the point is, the Fusion is bigger in almost every dimension, sits more people, and has many more luxury features yet is lighter, all without the benefit of any exotic materials.
Have you compared weights of a v6 vs a 4cyl?

How about a 6r80 vs a transaxle?

What does a driveshaft and rear axle weigh?
 

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scottpe

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Have you compared weights of a v6 vs a 4cyl?

How about a 6r80 vs a transaxle?

What does a driveshaft and rear axle weigh?
Or a frame/chassis that has to support well over 600hp vs one that needs to support a fraction of that?
 

thePill

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Lets use the 2010 and 2014 Fusions and see what changes were made and if weight was lost...

2010 Fusion: 107.4WB, 190 Overall... 3285lbs with a 2.5 I4, 6 speed manual and 205/60R16's

2014 Fusion: 112.2WB, 191.7 Overall... 3425lbs with a 2.5 I4, Automatic and 215/60R16's

Both are four doors and are basically the first of its remodel, the '10 and the '13-'14 Fusion. The refresh brought on a slightly larger presence for the Fusion into a Large Mid-sized vehicle. The difference between the two are 140lbs. The automatic can account for 40-50lbs. The extra 5 inches of wheelbase has to account for something.

The Mustang is keeping the 107 inch wheelbase and, is shrinking in some places...

The new Fusion has a Ford Taurus wheelbase, it isn't a little car by no means. It is a full size wheelbase after all... I don't think it's crazy to believe a EB2.3 Mustang will weigh close to 3200lbs once you look at the rest of Ford's fleet. If an EB2.3 can get around 3200, the 5.0 will weigh around 3400lbs... Unless the put 200lbs of tech into the car... Think about it, the V6, EB and 5.0 all use the same transmissions/rearend... Everything is just beefed up. The suspension adds a lot of weight but still...
 

VIN666

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FWIW, the 2010 you described above is what I got for the wife.
Supposedly the only 6 speed in MI according to the dealer. Who knows if it's true, but regardless, it's a pretty fun grocery getter.
Took it to an AutoX once when all my toys were down at the same time (thanks Murphy!) and did surprisingly well.
Spanked a WS6 Pontiac LS1 car with suspension mods (among others). Haha.
Thought you guys might appreciate that.
 

Grimace427

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We are assuming that an IRS is heavier but we honestly don't know that. From what I've seen of the undersides, the only cross members I am seeing are holding the differential up. but are not necessarily heavy... the upright is aluminum, the lower arm is aluminum, the upper arm is god knows what, probably stamped steel (not heavy, not light either) and the cross members for the diff don't exactly scream heavy either.

I wouldn't be surprised if it weighed exactly the same as a live axle. The drive shaft will be lighter too. Might end up a wash with the half shafts being slightly heavier, we DON'T know, we are just assuming. It certainly doesn't look that heavy of a unit, certainly not as heavy as a live axle looks. I can't wait for the aftermarket to start "weighing" it all.

I've pulled more than a few complete IRS setups(with subframe, diff, brakes, everything complete) out of Mercedes replacing fuel tanks and other stuff and can say with certainty they don't weigh much more or less than a solid rear axle. Never had one on a scale but moving it off a trans jack to the floor with two other guys compared to putting a few 8.8" or Dana Jeep axles(don't know models) into the back of a pickup is close enough for me to know they aren't 150-200lbs more. I would guess this particular Ford IRS is within 50lbs of the outgoing 8.8" and the Ecoboost version can even get a lighter diff for further weight savings..
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