ESS kit install issues.

[robvas]

There's no reason that you would need a different belt than what ESS recommends. Everyone else is using that same belt. It would be nice if you had another ess car you could compare to side by side

Sponsored

 

[Esset]

Just thinking out loud... since the belt routing is correct, is the blower positioned properly in relation to the engine mounts?

 

[SheepDog]

The blower is back on, if I’m gonna COMPLETELY remove the kit then it will take me forever since it’s all back together. And honestly I don’t feel that it’s an instillation error.
I had multiple Ford mechanics help with the build and look over it. They do 5.0 timing chains regularly and followed the book. Used all special tools, and torqued everything. They aren’t familiar with higher power applications but can confidently say the kit is installed right and everything was done right following the instructions to a T. The only thing they/I can imagine being the issue is the belt being too long, causing the tensioner to not have tension and be thrown around. The injectors are causing issues dumping too much fuel into the cylinders. Or the tune isn’t calibrated.

Yes I do have the stock one, and it’s just as bad. There’s no tension being put onto the belt. I’ve seen issues where people need to get bigger belts but haven’t seen anything for smaller yet. Still searching everywhere.

Cam codes:

the thing about the cam codes are: they only happen on passenger side, even when switching the cam sensors. Sometimes only 2 codes are set instead of 4. And sometimes the engine light doesn’t even come on but only when it runs like complete shit.

man, sorry to come back in here and see that you are still struggling with this.
You really need to revert to stock and make sure it runs properly before worrying about the blower or the tune. All those cam codes are pretty indicative of a timing issue. Yo can’t solve or troubleshoot 10 things at once.
Leave the intercooler in place. Take the blower off, install the OEM injectors, belt, and intake and flash to stock file. It’s the only way to be sure that you aren’t chasing your tail.

 

[TheButterBomber]

There's no reason that you would need a different belt than what ESS recommends. Everyone else is using that same belt. It would be nice if you had another ess car you could compare to side by side

I know someone with a gen2 kit, I could try to stop by them

 

[TheButterBomber]

man, sorry to come back in here and see that you are still struggling with this.
You really need to revert to stock and make sure it runs properly before worrying about the blower or the tune. All those cam codes are pretty indicative of a timing issue. Yo can’t solve or troubleshoot 10 things at once.
Leave the intercooler in place. Take the blower off, install the OEM injectors, belt, and intake and flash to stock file. It’s the only way to be sure that you aren’t chasing your tail.

How about the lockout kit? Should that affect anything with the stock tune? Or the long tubes/catless set up?

 

[SheepDog]

How about the lockout kit? Should that effect anything with the stock tune?

You will get a code, but it should still run and idle. Mostly, you need to be 100% sure that the timing is correct and those cam codes don’t come back.

you mentioned that it runs (or runs better) with a giant vacuum leak right? And that with the line capped, it runs like ass and you smell fuel coming from the exhaust. So basically, the vacuum leak is actually helping to balance the air/fuel ratio. So- either the cam timing is off which is creating a rich condition, or the tune sucks. Either way, you definitely should not be getting cam related trouble codes.

 

[TheButterBomber]

You will get a code, but it should still run and idle. Mostly, you need to be 100% sure that the timing is correct and those cam codes don’t come back.

you mentioned that it runs (or runs better) with a giant vacuum leak right? And that with the line capped, it runs like ass and you smell fuel coming from the exhaust. So basically, the vacuum leak is actually helping to balance the air/fuel ratio. So- either the cam timing is off which is creating a rich condition, or the tune sucks. Either way, you definitely should not be getting cam related trouble codes.

It ran good without the vacuum leak when idled at 800+ rpm. Right now it doesn’t want to idle there and idles at 500, then is crapping out. It pretty much spits fuel out regardless.

 

[SheepDog]

It’s correct just measured.

Did you maybe order a kit from ESS mistakenly for the 2015-2017 cars? The harmonic balancer is a different diameter between gen 2 and gen3 engines.
Not to be a parrot, but like I mentioned before, you really need to start over. Sure, it sucks but it’s the only way to ensure everything is right.

 

[TheButterBomber]

It ran good without the vacuum leak when idled at 800+ rpm. Right now it doesn’t want to idle there and idles at 500, then is crapping out.

Did you maybe order a kit from ESS mistakenly for the 2015-2017 cars? The harmonic balancer is a different diameter between gen 2 and gen3 engines.
Not to be a parrot, but like I mentioned before, you really need to start over. Sure, it sucks but it’s the only way to ensure everything is right.

I asked ESS if I was sent the wrong kit and they basically ignored the question. I have the stock harmonic balancer installed.

I requested a start up tune from wengerd, if it runs correctly on start up I’ll be switching tuners. It dumps fuel out regardless of what state it’s in. I’ve seen my fuel mileage range drop so much that I’m gonna have to go get gas and fill it up in my garage with a can.

I plan on taking it apart, and reverting to stock. I would like another tuner to take a look at my tune and see if it’s an issue with the injectors before so.

Lastly I also don’t understand why the tensioner would be so loose still there’s no tension and everything is installed and routed correctly.

 

[SheepDog]

I asked ESS if I was sent the wrong kit and they basically ignored the question. I have the stock harmonic balancer installed.

I requested a start up tune from wengerd, if it runs correctly on start up I’ll be switching tuners. It dumps fuel out regardless of what state it’s in. I’ve seen my fuel mileage range drop so much that I’m gonna have to go get gas and fill it up in my garage with a can.

I plan on taking it apart, and reverting to stock. I would like another tuner to take a look at my tune and see if it’s an issue with the injectors before so.

Lastly I also don’t understand why the tensioner would be so loose still there’s no tension and everything is installed and routed correctly.

Check your ESS order and confirm that you didn’t make a mistake ordering the wrong generation kit.

the only way the belt can be too long are issues that you claim have already been vetted.

belt routed incorrectly

Harmonic balancer not the specified diameter for the kit

blower bracket and/or pulleys installed incorrectly. Send a picture with the intake off of the blower, and the orientation of the bracket to the engine. Just to be sure you didn’t miss a hole or have it clocked incorrectly. ( not sure this is even possible)

Maybe ESS changed the diameter of the idlers, but I doubt it.

still though, if this were mine, I’d be much more concerned with the cam codes and running issue. The belt length ( provided everything is installed correctly) is an easy fix. I know that you do not want to believe that the timing job was done incorrectly, but you also don’t know for sure that it was.

you never do a job like that without first confirming that the engine runs correctly before moving on to other modifications. Maybe it is the tune, but I doubt that Lund screwed it up so bad that it would be throwing cam related codes. They do suck, so fingers crossed that the Wengerd start up file fixes it. If it doesn’t, then you still don’t know what is wrong. I’d start from scratch if I were in your shoes.

 

[TheButterBomber]

Check your ESS order and confirm that you didn’t make a mistake ordering the wrong generation kit.

the only way the belt can be too long are issues that you claim have already been vetted.

belt routed incorrectly

Harmonic balancer not the specified diameter for the kit

blower bracket and/or pulleys installed incorrectly. Send a picture with the intake off of the blower, and the orientation of the bracket to the engine. Just to be sure you didn’t miss a hole or have it clocked incorrectly. ( not sure this is even possible)

Maybe ESS changed the diameter of the idlers, but I doubt it.

still though, if this were mine, I’d be much more concerned with the cam codes and running issue. The belt length ( provided everything is installed correctly) is an easy fix. I know that you do not want to believe that the timing job was done incorrectly, but you also don’t know for sure that it was.

you never do a job like that without first confirming that the engine runs correctly before moving on to other modifications. Maybe it is the tune, but I doubt that Lund screwed it up so bad that it would be throwing cam related codes. They do suck, so fingers crossed that the Wengerd start up file fixes it. If it doesn’t, then you still don’t know what is wrong. I’d start from scratch if I were in your shoes.

Here is a photo of my order, there’s no indication on the order or my email confirmation it is a gen 3 kit in the order. I’m not sure where else to find this information.

here are photos of the belt routing:

I have the stock harmonic balancer with a stud kit torqued to spec, it also seats correctly for both belt positions on each rib.

When I took the blower off, I took a look at the bracket position and checked every single bolt and spacer position. It was correctly installed and honestly I don’t see how it would be possible to install it incorrectly. Each bolt and spacer position only has 1 place to go. I also double checked the spacing between the fender wall and the side of the bracket and it is spaced correctly.

As for the tensioner issue and belt size. The belt is perfectly straight and stays on all the ridges. I have the correct belt and pulley size involved as per ESS recommendation on their chart. This is what the tensioner looks like when the belt is installed. There’s a couple sharpie marks. The mark on the outside arm of the tensioner at the top is a reference mark. The top sharpie line is without a belt installed. The bottom mark is the tensioner fully tensioned. With the belt installed, it almost has not traveled at all. There’s no tension put on the belt.

So I went with the 2nd and 3rd size belts below the recommended sizes on the chart and will see what the tension looks like. I will update what these are like soon.

It won’t throw engine lights every time it runs, only half the time. But regardless it runs terribly rough and wants to die out. 800rpm seamed like it’s happy spot and still poured fuel. When it’s at 500rpm wanting to die out, it’s pouring fuel. No matter what fuel is pissing out the back. I’ve had to put an extinguisher or two by the car from how much it’s pouring out. You can feel the spray of the fuel 5-10 feet behind the car while it’s running.

 

[Timbuck]

Man this is a tough one. I feel like it is timing related and there for it’s injecting fuel and not burning it as the cam timing is out. it will run like a dog and in turn the belt will be bouncing around as the engine it miss firing.

 

[TheButterBomber]

Man this is a tough one. I feel like it is timing related and there for it’s injecting fuel and not burning it as the cam timing is out. it will run like a dog and in turn the belt will be bouncing around as the engine it miss firing.

But it won’t misfire half the time it runs. It just runs like crap and sprays fuel.

 

[Timbuck]

When is has moments of running a bit better , can you rev the engine ??

 

[Timbuck]

I feel like some of that behaviour could be the ECU trying to make it run , it’s trying to make the cam timing correct via VCT. If you stop and start it 5 times it will have different cam timing 5 times as it continually trying to make its self run. Fuel is a by product of exhaust cam open and your injecting fuel. It won’t miss fire due the fuel has gone out the exhaust before your spark plug lights it.

Sponsored