I think the idea is that stock manifolds without cats have a measurable gain show by posters here. So the gains from the headers can be slightly deceiving because you're getting the advantage from the headers themselves but also from not having cats
I would love to see objective back-to-back testing, I have a hard time seeing how LTH have significant power gains over the GEN 3 or Gen 4 tubular manifolds. I replaced the 2M fabrications 3" Performance Pipe system ($290 plus welding skill for the driver's side flange mod) on my son's GT with a real 4-1 LTH system and there is no perceivable difference in power. I bet eliminating the 2" diameter choke point entering the stock resonator also has impact, but again, I'd love to see objective dyno tests like the Engine Masters show used to do. Noise is subjective, I can't tell much difference until after 4000 RPM with 4-1 headers, they seem to howl louder and less "clappy" than with manifolds.
Its a tricky thing. LTH may have a different resonant point than stock manifolds. So you'd could need to adjust the tune so that the exhaust cam timing is matched to the headers to maximize their potential. Though that could be complete BS, I've never tested it.
You have a hard time understanding how a aftermarket LTH makes more power over the above? It seems that the gain isn't ideal versus the cost for some, and that's fine. LONG TUBE HEADERS make more power that oem exhaust manifolds. That's pretty much it.I would love to see objective back-to-back testing, I have a hard time seeing how LTH have significant power gains over the GEN 3 or Gen 4 tubular manifolds. I replaced the 2M fabrications 3" Performance Pipe system ($290 plus welding skill for the driver's side flange mod) on my son's GT with a real 4-1 LTH system and there is no perceivable difference in power. I bet eliminating the 2" diameter choke point entering the stock resonator also has impact, but again, I'd love to see objective dyno tests like the Engine Masters show used to do. Noise is subjective, I can't tell much difference until after 4000 RPM with 4-1 headers, they seem to howl louder and less "clappy" than with manifolds.
Was giving an idea to OP of what the long tubes could add since mine had stock headers.
I'd be interested but my Coyote heads aren't tapped for the reversed center stud pattern used on the Voodoo heads. Kooks uses a universal header flange with holes provided for either stud/gasket pattern.
Engine masters etc have done a lot of header tests, they always make more power
I would say that's true over the old cast iron manifolds. But Ford spent time and money designing the "shorty" tube header for the Coyote. Yes they had to meet emission standards and packaging constraints, but they also knew they had to achieve as much power as they can to compete in the market place. As Engine Masters has demonstrated "shorty" headers makes more torque at the lower RPM range, where the Coyote needs it most. This makes them more desirable for street use. Long tubes, on the other hand, make more power at the top of the RPM range, which makes them more desirable for the track. The Gen 3 Coyote is already tweaked out from the factory as is. It already flows enough air for it's displacement. Throwing thousands of dollars at it for NA with CAI, LTH, and exhaust pipes for very modest gains, to me, is a waste. I think just an E85 tune is all you need on a stock engine. Now, everyone knows that the Gen 3 responds well to forced induction and that's the way to go. As usual this is only my opinion and it my differ than yours.
I wouldn't have pointed it out if it wasn't incorrect.Don't think so.
We agree that longtubes make more power and that you cannot justify the cost. All good.
