Cooled seats not cooling

[JeffARB]

Might be bigger than we think... Occurs in 2015 Escalade rental too

All, I have the seat back cooling problem on both of my 2015s... I rarely use the cooling so I'm just waiting in the background for a fix... Here's the thing... I rented a 2015 Cadillac Escalade ESV with the fam on vacation to Orlando last week... Exact same issue with the seat coolers not working well and ultimately heating the seat backs in that beast. People in the middle row were talking about how "blazing hot" the front seat backs were getting too! Me-thinks this could be a supplier issue where Ford (and GM and maybe more) were sold a bill of goods on a cooling setup that can not work in the seat backs... We shall see.

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[Darko66]

Mine start getting hot immediately, so not sure if it would throw an error sooner. Although I'm not sure if it would say anything even once it poops out. Depends what the sensors report, I suppose. No one here has actually gotten a report of an error code have they?

Gentherm, the designer of the climate control seats as they call them and the supplier of the blower/TED units, announced their second quarter earnings today. Their press release even mentioned the Mustang as an example of a new user of their CCS. There was no mention of any potential issues with their devices that would bring about potential unexpected costs. If they were aware of a major problem, they would be obligated to mention it, but perhaps at this point any cost they might face is considered minimal, if they are aware of anything at all.

They had a couple interesting paragraphs in last year's annual report.

"A TED is the heart of a compact heat pump used in our active CCS products. Air is forced through the heat pump and thermally conditioned in response to electronic switch input from the seat occupant. The conditioned air circulates by a specially designed fan through a proprietary air distribution system installed in the seat cushion and seat back, so that the seat surface can be heated or cooled. Each seat has individual electronic controls to adjust the level of heating or cooling. Active CCS products substantially improve comfort compared with conventional air conditioners by focusing the cooling directly on the passenger through the seat rather than waiting until ambient air cools the seat surface beneath the passenger. A heated and ventilated only variant of the CCS utilizes ambient cabin air to provide cooling comfort instead of a TED to actively cool the seat. In the heating mode, the vent only system is supplemented with resistive heating elements."

"Since each vehicle model’s seats are different, we must tailor the CCS components to meet each seat design. Since we first began to develop the CCS in the late 1990’s, we have supplied prototype seats containing our CCS product to virtually every major automobile manufacturer and seat supplier. If a manufacturer wishes to integrate our CCS product into a seat, it provides us with automotive seats to be modified so that we can install a unit in a prototype. The seat is then returned to the manufacturer for evaluation and testing. If a manufacturer accepts our CCS product, a program can then be launched for a particular model on a production basis, but it normally takes two to three years from the time a manufacturer decides to include our CCS product in a vehicle model to actual volume production for that vehicle."

 

[GT Pony]

They had a couple interesting paragraphs in last year's annual report.

"Since each vehicle model’s seats are different, we must tailor the CCS components to meet each seat design. Since we first began to develop the CCS in the late 1990’s, we have supplied prototype seats containing our CCS product to virtually every major automobile manufacturer and seat supplier. If a manufacturer wishes to integrate our CCS product into a seat, it provides us with automotive seats to be modified so that we can install a unit in a prototype. The seat is then returned to the manufacturer for evaluation and testing. If a manufacturer accepts our CCS product, a program can then be launched for a particular model on a production basis, but it normally takes two to three years from the time a manufacturer decides to include our CCS product in a vehicle model to actual volume production for that vehicle."

Apparently not enough testing or the right testing was done by Ford.

 

[turtleboy]

There needs to be a fix, the seat coolers are not worth it. I was in a friends Benz CLS 550, hit the seat coolers and started freezing and had to kick it down. Whats Ford doing wrong here?

 

[Stangnut]

One thing I've wondered about is the pre-production testing they do with the test mules we always see running around. They drive the hell out of these cars before they go into production. They drive them in both hot and cold climates. Were the testers too stupid to realize the seat backs don't cool? Did they notice the problem and report it to Ford and Ford decided not to do anything about it? Someone, somewhere, at some point dropped the ball.

 

[Stangnut]

Well, the CSM does not return phone calls. In fact, the last time I was able to get her on the phone was about 3 weeks ago. Additionally, she really did not want to discuss the seats very much at all. The only thing she would do is repeat that the dealer connected the equipment and the readings from the equipment showed that the seat cooler was working.

She refused to talk about what the actual "FEEL" was. I need someone at Ford to do something. The dealer will do nothing more than that. They tell me that they cannot unless the CSM approves it. The CSM won't communicate.

They also said they think they have a new CSM. So, Deysha, can you find out anything, or get someone to talk to me?

And people question why we don't want to take our cars in.

 

[Blacklaw]

And people question why we don't want to take our cars in.

https://www.bbb.org/council/program...-auto-line/learn-more-about-state-lemon-laws/

I would go to this site and start the process.

 

[ctlaw]

One thing I've wondered about is the pre-production testing they do with the test mules we always see running around. They drive the hell out of these cars before they go into production. They drive them in both hot and cold climates. Were the testers too stupid to realize the seat backs don't cool? Did they notice the problem and report it to Ford and Ford decided not to do anything about it? Someone, somewhere, at some point dropped the ball.

Think about the following:

None of the V6 cars would have had cooled seats.

Many of the GT and EB cars would have had the Recaros.

Most of the remaining GT and EB cars probably did not have cooled seats.

On those few EB-Premium and GT-Premium mules that did, the drivers were probably spending more effort evaluatiing other Premium-specific electronics, etc.

 

[shockme66]

I have about 1k miles on my car and think I have a seat not-cooling issue also. I have a 2014 Explorer sport with cooling seats and those work really good, in fact when on I get to cold. I would assume our Mustangs would do the same.


Last night I thought I felt the back of the seat towards the right side of my back being heated. I assume this is what everyone else is feeling as well.

 

[willmkent]

sooooooo.....

I installed some parts yesterday that required me to remove the negative battery terminal. So I did so, and then I went to use my cooled seats today... aaaaaaaannndddd, the seat seemed to work. The bottom got nice and cool, NOT COLD, but cool. and the back actually cooled down. It was 71 degrees outside this morning and I had the windows down. NO AC... and they worked..

not yesterday in 90 Degree weather, the seat did not cool at all with the windows down... can anyone attest to hot heat like 90 with the windows down and their seats still worked?

this is really sending my head through a loop...

 

[Free Agent]

I have been following the F-150 thread with the same problem as the Mustangs. Someone posted information about a TSB being in the works for the F-150

http://www.f150forum.com/f118/cooli...-working-properly-304154/index98/#post4267247

Hopefully, something is in the works for the Mustang as well.

The F-150 guys were tweeting the CEO about the issue, maybe that got some attention.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is where we are going to see movement, through the F150 community. Bypassing the "chain of command" (whose sole function is to slow things down and insulate top management) and tweeting the CEO was a stroke of genius.

 

[Droid_Junky]

sooooooo.....

I installed some parts yesterday that required me to remove the negative battery terminal. So I did so, and then I went to use my cooled seats today... aaaaaaaannndddd, the seat seemed to work. The bottom got nice and cool, NOT COLD, but cool. and the back actually cooled down. It was 71 degrees outside this morning and I had the windows down. NO AC... and they worked..

not yesterday in 90 Degree weather, the seat did not cool at all with the windows down... can anyone attest to hot heat like 90 with the windows down and their seats still worked?

this is really sending my head through a loop...

Yeah, when the weather cools down this winter we will all be talking about how great they work. Mine worked great last November when I bought the car. I ran them several times the first few weeks I bought the car. It was in the 50s or 60s at that time...

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[willmkent]

gotcha, i just fear my dealer is going to be like " oh hey will, your seats work completely fine"!!!!

 

[Stangnut]

According to the guys on the F150 forum, Ford has started the process for a TSB for the trucks. Some type of internal memo was posted, but Ford told them to take it down.

http://www.f150forum.com/f118/cooli...-working-properly-304154/index97/#post4267205

There was a screen shot from Ford showing they're aware of the problem and there will be a production correction on 7-26, and a TSB on 7-27

In several other posts, a snorkel is mentioned to direct the hot air outside the seat.

Since we're not as important to Ford as the F150, there's no telling whether or not anything is actually being done to fix the Mustangs.

 

[bstreet5.0]

The fix will be an owner's manual update. "Prolonged use of cooled seats will cause seats to heat up."

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