Are long tube headers worth it ?

[K4fxd]

Aside from being ugly, the collector is reduced at the exit point.

And someone took an expander and expanded the collector itself. This is costing 20 HP. Is my guess.

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[robvas]

Is the length of that extension optimal?

 

[GregO]

Here’s a text book example of a proper merge collector back layout.
That back section is getting mighty close to a Two Stroke expansion chamber….. Most newer 4 stroke dirt bikes have a similar feature located towards the backside exit radius of the head pipe.

 

[GregO]

And someone took an expander and expanded the collector itself. This is costing 20 HP. Is my guess.

Good times. At least it’s a slip-on collector.
SPD has what you need.
http://www.spdexhaust.com/CollectorsB.html

 

[K4fxd]

Is the length of that extension optimal?

No. Nothing on these are optimal.

 

[K4fxd]

I wish I had room to copy this from the collector back.

 

[GregO]

I wish I had room to copy this from the collector back.

Honestly, in my unprofessional opinion even if you shorten up the megaphone to fit your allowable space it’ll be better than a size on size collector turn down.
With that header you posted, a new merge with a properly sized choke and a shorty divergent & reverse cone you’ll be HP ahead.

 

[JOKER M1]

I have no regrets. Kooks with green cats, steeda H pipe factory active mufflers. Factory intake, E85 tune. Yes, it’s 1 step louder but quiet mode doesn’t raise issues with neighbors or wife. Sport sounds amazing. Track would be too loud for the street but it’s not designed for the street so there’s that.

Would like to hear that, videos posted anywhere ?

 

[Jnaszty559]

Headers in general are a nice touch. While some can net more hp over trq, they can improve the performance. Depending on the material, flow pattern, design, spike used in the collector, and the collect location, you can see different power curves.

Most headers can net 20-30hp and about the same in trq. The main thing though is where the pick up of power is. Some headers will see more top end or in the mid range. But the heartbeat of a good header is the collector location and spike used. The spike for those who don't know is just that and it sits inside and design to have the gasses mix. From here, the collector style can either build back pressure or if it's made like a ventura, it will suck the gases out quicker which, the longer the collector is and sits along with the spike design will usually give you the all around hp gains. Now a "free flowing" header is the way to go but if you have no mufflers or a res delete, it's not enough back pressure and you can actually lose hp. Why a little back pressure is good. Any muffler or resonator will be enough for this.

Now with the tube thickness, this can keep the sound down or add a tingy sound. Thicker is better. Keeps the heat in the pipe more and a constant flow. This is why most use a 304 SS with a 16 or 18 gauge wall thickness. As far as primary, the rule of thumb is this;

N/A - 1 3/4" or 1 7/8" (we have seen little to no difference on these 2 sizes on the NA setup but if you plan on adding boost, it's a one a done with the 7/8" size).
Blower. - 1 7/8" (good to about 1100hp)
2" (1100+ hp)

Depending on the header you go with and the style of catback, it can change the sound. Keeping the same muffler but different header brands will sound different. Not a massive difference like a catback swap but you can tell. On mine, I have LTH Exhaust 1 7/8" headers with the Borla S-Type catback with the Borla Resonator and IMO, sounds amazing. No drone or rasp. Not loud, and I only get compliments. I have heard another S550 with the same catback setup with another header and it did sound different. Little on the rasp side. This is because of the collector design and location, tube routing, and the spike.

Now with cats, most use a 200 cell which is fine but more so for N/A setups. They cannot handle boost well or at all. This is why most companies like KOOKS, LTH Exhaust, Stainless Works, use what is called a GESI cat or also known as GREEN cats which are EPA compliant and designed for boost. I have seen north of a 1000hp with them. Now will they last forever, no but it helps.

With Fords design... I will admit that since 2011, Ford has stepped up the flow game a lot with getting rid of the cast manifolds with a better flowing "shorty" design system. But the factory cats ARE AND WILL never be rated for boost. Them, like 200 cell cats are fine for N/A setups.


I hope this helps. And with that said, if you or anyone is looking to pick up some headers, we do work with all the major brands and can help you out. Let us know!

https://www.lethalperformance.com/s...-mustang-gt-exhaust-systems/headers/long-tube

Any discount for ordering stainless power headers from your site?

 

[K4fxd]

A quick easy way to find out if your engine wants back pressure is to bolt on a pair of turbo mufflers, or put a potato in the exhaust tips.

 

[Jasonb543]

My car just picked up 4 plus MPH in the 1/4 at the track with headers…
worth it…/thread.

 

[GregO]

My car just picked up 4 plus MPH in the 1/4 at the track with headers…
worth it…/thread.

OEM Catted prior to headers ?

 

[Good_ol_Dave]

So I’m deciding if long tube headers are worth the price N/A ? For the price of headers and having a shop install I can get my car wrapped a different color… I do like how they make the car louder and a little HP. Do you guys think it’s worth the price ? Or spend it elsewhere ?

I used ultimate headers and high flo cats on my 21 GT. I do very little work on my cars at this point so I went with a shop install. I have the majority of the steeda suspension parts and do to the headers I could not run the 4 point G track brace. That is a trade off for using headers. I used the accelatec xpipe with resonator and roush mufflers. The sound was much more "exotic" than muscle car. So in the end I had to use the 2 point G track brace and changed the exhaust to Borla Touring (European). The gave the car some handling advantage with the 2 point and the low rumble from the exhaust. Having headers may have some advantages but not a lot of them. My car is 656 whp so I'm sure they help but I could have spent that money elsewhere. Just my .02

 

[markmurfie]

I think headers are worth the upgrade based on the change in exhaust note alone. I would spend the money on them again.

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1742-6596/2051/1/012044/pdf

There is tons of research that concludes a smaller backpressure is required to maximize IC engine’s performance.

" It was found that 0.22 kW to 0.45 kW of engine's power increases for every 1 kPa of exhaust backpressure decrement. " This is a average based on exhaust manifolds designed using robust design methods to optimize the length and bend angles of the exhaust manifold focusing on reducing backpressure to their lowest levels across a variety of SI and CI engines. Needing some minimum level of back pressure or you will lose performance is a myth. The OEM manifold and catalytic converters work well and are durable under high stress conditions, so how much performance headers gain over them may not be much. IMO It will be a gain at all levels as I think you would have to work to put something on thats worst than the OEM setup designed for optimized emissisons which can benefit from higher pressures and temperatures.

 

[Paul McWhiskey]

A quick easy way to find out if your engine wants back pressure is to bolt on a pair of turbo mufflers, or put a potato in the exhaust tips.

I think you forgot to mention Flowmaster.

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