Are long tube headers worth it ?

[GregO]

It’s me, it’s me, It’s Ernest T.
I can see you but you can’t see me.

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[WildHorse]

Did the OEM header carry over to the Gen4 ?

Google it.

 

[GregO]

Google it.

Yes Sir Colonel Klink Sir !

 

[Flyhalf]

In hindsight, no. I did a set and it makes your car a LOT louder. Unless you are going boost, skip them. They are expensive, plus paying a shop to install is not cheap. The juice isn't worth the squeeze IMHO. Now an intake and a tune, yes. That is definitely worth it...

This.

And I add. I dyno every mod
My catback gave me 14whp.
Then I installed the headers and no power just more torque.

Intake and tune way better

 

[NGOT8R]

Here’s a shot of the inside and outside of the Ultimate Headers that are on my 2019. I never paid attention to the cone inside the collector until reading this thread. Does the length of the cone play a role in the header’s torque output?

 

[K4fxd]

Does the length of the cone play a role in the header’s torque output?

I haven't studied it but I believe it is there to straighten the airflow. Stop or reduce turbulence. That collector looks decent unlike the earlier Kooks.

 

[Paul McWhiskey]

Imagine, if you will if K4fxd and Ravage88 were able to sit down and be civil with one another. I am going to take a side as I think that K4fxd has handled himself better, but disagreements can produce solutions when both sides can get past the ego’s and resolve questions.
Gentlemen, if you do prefer to throttle each other, may I suggest that you do it privately and then come back with intelligent discussion with questions and offerings from both points of view.
As I have already said I am in K4fxd’s dugout at this point. That does not mean that I cannot be signed on by the other team. I just need well presented arguments and data to win me over.
And, I am not even considering headers. But, I do appreciate well thought out presentation and data to back it up.
Good luck to you both and always stay on the high ground.

 

[WildHorse]

This is a tried and true method for determining collector size / length for any 4-2-1 or 4-1 header. Hasn't changed in a long time because it's the best method:

1. Determine your engine's displacement and horsepower.
2. Consult a header sizing chart, find the recommended primary tube diameter for your engine's displacement and horsepower.
3. Calculate the collector diameter by multiplying the primary tube diameter by 1.5 , 1.75 , 2.0, depending on the engine's intended use (e.g., street, strip, or race).
4. Determine the collector length by considering the intended use of the vehicle:
   • For street applications, a shorter collector (around 6-8 inches) can help improve low-end torque.
   • For drag racing or high-performance applications, a longer collector (around 10-12 inches) can help improve top-end horsepower.
     

 

[GregO]

Does the length of the cone play a role in the header’s torque output?

The spike does a few things.
It fills an open void area where the primary’s join together to reduce turbulence or better said exhaust gas eddying. (As K4fxd posted above)
If the header primary’s are arranged correctly the exhaust gas exiting the primary will remain attached to the spike and collector side wall thus helping to create a depression or “low pressure” inside the adjacent primary. It does add horsepower, how much I’m not sure.
There is a term for the primary arrangement I’m referencing. I’m going off the cuff but I believe it’s referred to as rotational fired. It’s very effective especially on inline 5’s and 6’s

 

[RAVAGE88]

Imagine, if you will if K4fxd and Ravage88 were able to sit down and be civil with one another. I am going to take a side as I think that K4fxd has handled himself better, but disagreements can produce solutions when both sides can get past the ego’s and resolve questions.
Gentlemen, if you do prefer to throttle each other, may I suggest that you do it privately and then come back with intelligent discussion with questions and offerings from both points of view.
As I have already said I am in K4fxd’s dugout at this point. That does not mean that I cannot be signed on by the other team. I just need well presented arguments and data to win me over.
And, I am not even considering headers. But, I do appreciate well thought out presentation and data to back it up.
Good luck to you both and always stay on the high ground.

Thank you, Mr. McWhiskey, this post has value. And, I'm quite certain "Ed" (I know it's really Dan, just being humorous and I know Dan can take it) and I can sit down and have a lot to talk about....civilly, of course. He's a personable guy and always eager to help.

I read more here than posting but instead, contribute by helping people via PM (shipping specialty tools that I'm never sure I'll get back, but always have, providing measurements, technical info, testing and results info, etc.). I say all this because, I won't be sharing any deep technical detail about headers in this thread but I will share that I have issued patents involving the efficient flow of high velocity, high temperature gases, managing the pressure-time relationship, etc., so I can easily say there's an incredible amount of misinformation in this thread. Hence throwing the red flag when there was a perfect opportunity for a much deeper technical exchange when Lethal Steve guy mentioned back-pressure. Had there been a genuine interest and openness to consider something other than construed conventional wisdom from enthusiasts (not professionals) instead of shutting the guy down, I might've engaged differently. @GregO is the only one that openly had light bulbs going off and he handled it in a way that sets a better example. Other's were likely unwilling to ask what they felt were dumb questions, which negates the reason for this forum, especially after the OP asked a highly viable question.

As far as who's camp so and so is in, don't really care, but I do appreciate what you're saying here. And, hopefully, aside from all this internet hoopla, the OP received a usable answer to his question.

"Ed:"

MB

 

[K4fxd]

I do not know everything and would love someone to explain new concepts.

If you want to educate people, please do.

I have not received a PM from @RAVAGE88

 

[K4fxd]

Anyone see an obvious problem with these?

 

[NGOT8R]

Anyone see an obvious problem with these?

Aside from being ugly, the collector is reduced at the exit point.

 

[RAVAGE88]

If you want to educate people, please do.

I have not received a PM from @RAVAGE88

I do, quite a lot, for those genuinely open to it.

I've not sent you a PM....should I?

MB

 

[K4fxd]

I've not sent you a PM....should I?

I love to learn.

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