Are long tube headers worth it ?

[ORRadtech]

Been doing what a long time ?

Maybe you did, don’t recall.

MB

Question nicely sidestepped...

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[ice445]

Ok.

There are some very important factors to what @LethalSteveG stated (as well as other sources of more inclusive data sets) and you either recognize that or you don’t. There’s also tons more to testing this topic that hasn’t been addressed. If you’d like to blame this on those coming down from an LSD trip in the 70’s, be my guest.

MB

It's just annoying when it's called "back presssure" when people are really talking about scavenging which is a useful property that actually does add some power.

 

[K4fxd]

Exactly, it is not backpressure. Velocity and reflective waves without getting into scientific terms and math.

 

[GregO]

Is now a good time to bring up header chokes ?
Anyone here subscribe to the teachings of Calvin Elston ?

 

[GregO]

It's just annoying when it's called "back presssure" when people are really talking about scavenging which is a useful property that actually does add some power.

Mostly in 2V, not so much in 4V VVT motors.

 

[Jnaszty559]

I have no regrets. Kooks with green cats, steeda H pipe factory active mufflers. Factory intake, E85 tune. Yes, it’s 1 step louder but quiet mode doesn’t raise issues with neighbors or wife. Sport sounds amazing. Track would be too loud for the street but it’s not designed for the street so there’s that.

good to hear. I also have an aftermarket valves system so I would be able to go quiet mode in an instant

 

[RAVAGE88]

Is now a good time to bring up header chokes ?
Anyone here subscribe to the teachings of Calvin Elston ?

It's the perfect time to bring it up.

Regardless of what the "condition" is called, it was stated earlier that, "NO properly tuned 4 stroke engine wants back pressure," but the fact of the matter is, without accounting for it as part of the "tuned system," nothing is properly tuned at all.

So, if we actually involve the two highly called upon disciplines that contributed heavily to the design of the engine and the exhaust system, that being science and math, one would understand that velocity, temperature (and these are considered over a specific distance) and the resulting and highly important pressure-time relationship must be dealt with and used in favor of what it means to reach the goals of the system as a whole. So, "back pressure" is actually a tool, in many cases, but certainly not in every application, that's used to reach these goals.

This is why I stated in my first post in this thread that components by themselves are too often relied upon as a means of producing an outcome when it's the system made up of all the components that create the ultimate goal.

MB

 

[Jnaszty559]

Also if anyone is wondering. Im already tuned and on e85 by wengerd. I also have an aftermarket valved exhaust system. In my mind I’m just thinking do I spend around 2000 in total for a louder car or a color wrap to change the whole look of my car. Tough choice for me.

 

[WildHorse]

Theirs plenty of tuners who have said this and can get you all the data.

Most tuners know next to FA when it comes to practical applications. They only tell you what google tells them. BACKPRESSURE IS DETRIMENTAL TO MAKING HORSEPOWER. Backpressure reduces velocity & scavenging, the latter two are the things that make horsepower. Put a giant restriction (IE: backpressure) in the exhaust of a SC/Turbo car and watch boost go up, but you're not making 1 single more horsepower.

Now if you put a header & open exhaust on a 120hp 4 banger, you'll lose horsepower.

Why you ask ?

Because velocity and scavenging just went to shit. You may make 2-3 hp way way upstairs, but you'll lose a lot everywhere else. Same with the coyote, bigger gains way upstairs, bigger losses everywhere else. Fine if you only live at WOT.

Same with LTH design for coyotes. 20-30 gain NA (which most manufactures claim) is a pipedream. All yer doing with collector sizes, collector length, primary pipe diameters, primary pipe length is moving the powerband around. That's why CATTED REAL GAINS is only a few horsepower over the factory headers. Ford did a VERY GOOD JOB and spent a lot of money designing the factory coyote headers.

1-2$K LTH need clearancing just like the 200$ Ebay headers. Something wrong there.

I will agree that gesi is the way to go, but damn spendy.

Anyways, I could go on. But I think the point is made.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Also if anyone is wondering. Im already tuned and on e85 by wengerd. I also have an aftermarket valved exhaust system. In my mind I’m just thinking do I spend around 2000 in total for a louder car or a color wrap to change the whole look of my car. Tough choice for me.

Is your Home State one that does emissions testing? And to one up that, so they do a visual scan of the underside of the car?

If they do a visual, in some States it may fail emissions for having LT’s….

Just putting it out there… because it’s cost for what gain? Loud

 

[Dave2013M3]

Also if anyone is wondering. Im already tuned and on e85 by wengerd. I also have an aftermarket valved exhaust system. In my mind I’m just thinking do I spend around 2000 in total for a louder car or a color wrap to change the whole look of my car. Tough choice for me.

How are you going to smog this car in Cali?

 

[K4fxd]

Actually properly designed headers and open exhaust will make more than 120 HP in that 4 banger.

Most people go too big on tube diameter. "Size the tube for the HP the engine makes" ~ Ed Henneman

 

[Jnaszty559]

How are you going to smog this car in Cali?

Well I bought the car new so I don’t have to smog it for couple years lol. Also their are other ways to pass wink wink

 

[Jasonb543]

1 of my first mods was kooks 1 7/8s … I know it’s gonna end up supercharged and have seen to many cat failures to even bother…

Made it sound TITS… I’ll have it back at the track this weekend… I’ll know by MPH how much real power it gained.

 

[WildHorse]

Actually properly designed headers and open exhaust will make more than 120 HP in that 4 banger.

As said, way upstairs, and also I said, open exhaust. It'll get killed everywhere else.

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