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Are long tube headers worth it ?

LethalSteveG

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Headers in general are a nice touch. While some can net more hp over trq, they can improve the performance. Depending on the material, flow pattern, design, spike used in the collector, and the collect location, you can see different power curves.

Most headers can net 20-30hp and about the same in trq. The main thing though is where the pick up of power is. Some headers will see more top end or in the mid range. But the heartbeat of a good header is the collector location and spike used. The spike for those who don't know is just that and it sits inside and design to have the gasses mix. From here, the collector style can either build back pressure or if it's made like a ventura, it will suck the gases out quicker which, the longer the collector is and sits along with the spike design will usually give you the all around hp gains. Now a "free flowing" header is the way to go but if you have no mufflers or a res delete, it's not enough back pressure and you can actually lose hp. Why a little back pressure is good. Any muffler or resonator will be enough for this.

Now with the tube thickness, this can keep the sound down or add a tingy sound. Thicker is better. Keeps the heat in the pipe more and a constant flow. This is why most use a 304 SS with a 16 or 18 gauge wall thickness. As far as primary, the rule of thumb is this;

N/A - 1 3/4" or 1 7/8" (we have seen little to no difference on these 2 sizes on the NA setup but if you plan on adding boost, it's a one a done with the 7/8" size).
Blower. - 1 7/8" (good to about 1100hp)
2" (1100+ hp)

Depending on the header you go with and the style of catback, it can change the sound. Keeping the same muffler but different header brands will sound different. Not a massive difference like a catback swap but you can tell. On mine, I have LTH Exhaust 1 7/8" headers with the Borla S-Type catback with the Borla Resonator and IMO, sounds amazing. No drone or rasp. Not loud, and I only get compliments. I have heard another S550 with the same catback setup with another header and it did sound different. Little on the rasp side. This is because of the collector design and location, tube routing, and the spike.

Now with cats, most use a 200 cell which is fine but more so for N/A setups. They cannot handle boost well or at all. This is why most companies like KOOKS, LTH Exhaust, Stainless Works, use what is called a GESI cat or also known as GREEN cats which are EPA compliant and designed for boost. I have seen north of a 1000hp with them. Now will they last forever, no but it helps.

With Fords design... I will admit that since 2011, Ford has stepped up the flow game a lot with getting rid of the cast manifolds with a better flowing "shorty" design system. But the factory cats ARE AND WILL never be rated for boost. Them, like 200 cell cats are fine for N/A setups.


I hope this helps. And with that said, if you or anyone is looking to pick up some headers, we do work with all the major brands and can help you out. Let us know!

https://www.lethalperformance.com/s...-mustang-gt-exhaust-systems/headers/long-tube
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K4fxd

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Now a "free flowing" header is the way to go but if you have no mufflers or a res delete, it's not enough back pressure and you can actually lose hp. Why a little back pressure is good. Any muffler or resonator will be enough for this.
If you are going to keep this myth going please post up dyno graphs, along with pressure measurements in the exhaust.

NO properly tuned 4 stroke engine wants back pressure.
 

LethalSteveG

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If you are going to keep this myth going please post up dyno graphs, along with pressure measurements in the exhaust.

NO properly tuned 4 stroke engine wants back pressure.
Theirs plenty of tuners who have said this and can get you all the data. I have seen it on the dyno many times and have had people complain the car feels slower or they didn't pick up the power they hoped for. This is why people with cats have noticed a slight increase in trq. Not peak hp and this is on NA setups over boost. Turbo guys pending on the piping size and back section have to find the perfect amount of back pressure to where it's not enough or too much. Most of the time it's too much but pending the power setup, if it's too free flowing they can have power loss. And remind you, i'm talking about basic coyote setups and not full send
 

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K4fxd

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Again you do not want "back pressure" There is power in exhaust velocity and reflective waves.

Not. True.
Yes it is true. Back pressure hurts power every time.
 

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RAVAGE88

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Again you do not want "back pressure" There is power in exhaust velocity and reflective waves.


Yes it is true. Back pressure hurts power every time.
Whatever, Dude.

MB
 

K4fxd

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Whatever, Dude.
Take a properly designed exhaust and add a 5 PSI restriction and dyno again. Or 1 psi 2,3 or 10. All will result in less power. Been tested many times.
 

K4fxd

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The only time I ever found a benefit from back pressure is cold starting when it is 20 below zero.
 

RAVAGE88

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Take a properly designed exhaust and add a 5 PSI restriction and dyno again. Or 1 psi 2,3 or 10. All will result in less power. Been tested many times.
Couldn't care less what you say has been tested, been doing this a really long time. You do you.
MB
 

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RAVAGE88

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Been doing what a long time ?
I’m fairly positive I asked you this before on another thread some time ago.
Maybe you did, don’t recall.

MB
 

K4fxd

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Couldn't care less what you say has been tested, been doing this a really long time. You do you.
MB
I'm just going to put this here.

If back pressure made power every race car in the world would have it engineered into the exhaust. Spec series would specify an amount of allowable back pressure in the engine rules.

I've been building engines a long time.

The back pressure MYTH started in the 70's to try and stop people from cutting off the cats.
 

RAVAGE88

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I'm just going to put this here.

If back pressure made power every race car in the world would have it engineered into the exhaust. Spec series would specify an amount of allowable back pressure in the engine rules.

I've been building engines a long time.

The back pressure MYTH started in the 70's to try and stop people from cutting off the cats.
Ok.

There are some very important factors to what @LethalSteveG stated (as well as other sources of more inclusive data sets) and you either recognize that or you don’t. There’s also tons more to testing this topic that hasn’t been addressed. If you’d like to blame this on those coming down from an LSD trip in the 70’s, be my guest.

MB
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