Anyone seen a gen3 piston failure like this?

[wingnutt]

lol..ah yes, the ol’ big fish in a small bowl conundrum!

anywhoo, carry on

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[SheepDog]

You should give it some draggy times to show it is wrong and see what it says.

This.

If you tell it that your car will do a 1/4 in 12.6 on the street, with street tires, it will assume the information is correct. It is only as good as the data being inputted. Not sure I've ever seen anyone do a standing 1/4 mile on the street, but I'm all for it provided they don't get arrested for hitting triple digit speeds, and don't kill anyone in the process. Ford's claim of high 12's is done on a closed testing track, under ideal conditions. In the real world, I would be surprised to even see high 13's on the street, with street tires. However, any AWD car with a similar power to weight ratio will actually be able to reproduce those results.

 

[Oakley]

This.

If you tell it that your car will do a 1/4 in 12.6 on the street, with street tires, it will assume the information is correct. It is only as good as the data being inputted. Not sure I've ever seen anyone do a standing 1/4 mile on the street, but I'm all for it provided they don't get arrested for hitting triple digit speeds, and don't kill anyone in the process. Ford's claim of high 12's is done on a closed testing track, under ideal conditions. In the real world, I would be surprised to even see high 13's on the street, with street tires. However, any AWD car with a similar power to weight ratio will actually be able to reproduce those results.

HIGH 13'S? you're fuckin crazy bro LOL

I live in Texas, we got plenty of long straight roads

 

[SheepDog]

 

[GrabberBargeCaptain]

It really depends where you do your driving. If you live in an economically depressed area where everyone drives falling apart Corollas and shitbox CUVs, yes, you will feel quite fast.

Go to Miami, LA, any wealthy city and you will not feel so fast anymore

 

[engineermike]

Maybe I am missing the point, I don't see the mystery.

To me it looks like the piston cracked allowing for the wrist pin to be yanked out from the lobes that would otherwise hold it in place.

my theory:

step 1. red is the first split.

You said you don't see the mystery like it's obvious, but then said it "looks like" and you have a "theory". I agree at this point that it looks like your red line was the initial failure and all the other carnage was a result. But that's not a root cause; it's just a timeline. A root cause would be material defect/inclusion, over-rev, cylinder pressure, knock, etc. Each one of those would point you in a different direction for preventing future failures.

It appears from the data log that the failure actually occurred after he let off the throttle. Couple that with the pic in post 87 that shows a similarly failed piston in a nearly-stock NA Coyote along with reports of other stock engines failing in the same way, and it starts painting the picture that this could have been more a random failure than being caused by high loads and boost (thank you Waloddi Weibull).

 

[Oakley]

It appears from the data log that the failure actually occurred after he let off the throttle. Couple that with the pic in post 87 that shows a similarly failed piston in a nearly-stock NA Coyote along with reports of other stock engines failing in the same way, and it starts painting the picture that this could have been more a random failure than being caused by high loads and boost (thank you Waloddi Weibull).

nearly stock. was it tuned, by chance?

 

[engineermike]

nearly stock. was it tuned, by chance?

Everything I know about it is in this thread:

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/gen-4-darkhorse-coyote-swapped-mach-1.225923/#post-4445767

 

[Gen 6 Mach1]

EngineerMike , I trust in you knowledge, and have a question, would going to 5 - 50 W full syn.( from 5 -30 full syn.) , be better luberacation and protection here in the desert where ambient temperature range 60 to 80 November thru February, and March thru October range 90 to 110+ . This is not a daily only weekends to Cars n Coffee, Car Shows and our weekly Cruise in spot .
Thank you Mike.

 

[engineermike]

EngineerMike , I trust in you knowledge, and have a question, would going to 5 - 50 W full syn.( from 5 -30 full syn.) , be better luberacation and protection here in the desert where ambient temperature range 60 to 80 November thru February, and March thru October range 90 to 110+ . This is not a daily only weekends to Cars n Coffee, Car Shows and our weekly Cruise in spot .
Thank you Mike.

I will tell you that I run 5W40 Euro in my Roush F150 and used to run the same in my Mustang. I've since switched to Redline 5W50 in my Mustang because the additional torque required to drive the bank 1 exhaust cam due to the XDI HPFP was causing the phaser to lose control of the cam. I'm not thrilled about the Redline but it's the only one I've found to work in this situation, likely due to the fact that its viscosity is at the very upper end of what can be called a 50. Both Roush and Whipple recommend 5W50 in the Gen3.

 

[robvas]

I thought the gen 2/3 phasers didn't rely on oil pressure like the older ones?

 

[SheepDog]

switched to Redline 5W50 in my Mustang because the additional torque required to drive the bank 1 exhaust cam due to the XDI HPFP was causing the phaser to lose control of the cam.

Interesting.

There's always 10w-60 if the Redline gravy isn't thick enough.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...BF17jxjJtcjoSILEAziwta0hc_pph0iUaAtTUEALw_wcB

 

[engineermike]

I thought the gen 2/3 phasers didn't rely on oil pressure like the older ones?

Gen3 are CTA (cam torque actuated) on the intake and oil pressure actuated on the exhaust, presumably due to the hpfp drive torque required. They are more robust but also slower to react. The CTA also use oil to actuate but the pumping mechanism is totally different.

 

[Gen 6 Mach1]

I will tell you that I run 5W40 Euro in my Roush F150 and used to run the same in my Mustang. I've since switched to Redline 5W50 in my Mustang because the additional torque required to drive the bank 1 exhaust cam due to the XDI HPFP was causing the phaser to lose control of the cam. I'm not thrilled about the Redline but it's the only one I've found to work in this situation, likely due to the fact that its viscosity is at the very upper end of what can be called a 50. Both Roush and Whipple recommend 5W50 in the Gen3.

Thank you Mike that's reassuring and also validated what I was reading on Arizona temps . on the Internet. The 70 to 85 degrees is normal summer temperatures for most , and the 5-30W most likely is Fine for a stock NA Coyote . But again I'm in Az. our temp's October thru mid March are 60 thru 75 with a few 80 days , but late March thru May 90 deg. , and late May thru September is 105 to 115 degrees. I will a couple times a month cruise to our local Cruise in , during June thru September.110 or below. I didn't go into this detail on yearly temperature above , but my main concern is late March thru September. Running 5-50w year round would be more than acceptable .Thanks again, didn't mean to go off topic .

 

[SheepDog]

Thanks again, didn't mean to go off topic .

No worries, I already completely porked this thread. Sorry Mike.

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