Another blown engine thread

[Michael_vroomvroom]

UPDATE:

Given the previous in depth review of the warranty contract by myself and a lawyer we believe they are trying to get to a point where they can say with certainty, and prove so off the back of the machine shops work, that its the valve seal, they will then claim that valve seals are a 'wear and tear' item and then try to deny on that basis. It was predicted they would do this weeks ago and as I had mentioned in an earlier post I was prepared for this eventuality.

Bastards, but what an interesting saga. Crossing my fingers for them being forced to stand by their word. I do wonder what Ford says, if anything, is the maintenance/inspection interval for valve seals on the GT-350 though. :-/

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[svttim]

Damn warranty companies. Many are repudiable but many are not

 

[460Fred]

This really sheds light on 3rd party (or in many cases, any extended) warranties.

I've always said - the odds are in their favor, otherwise, there would be no warranty company. It is simply an unregulated insurance policy in which you are bound by the contract associated with it. In that contract you will mostly find limits of liability, exclusions and other loopholes to help limit the insurance(warranty) company's exposure.

These policies are sold in a way that makes the purchaser feel like the warranty company is helping to protect them when in fact, their main function is to avoid payout at almost any cost.

Just look how the warranty company is going through so many twists and turns to avoid payout here - it's not their first rodeo. Hope the OP can stick it to them.

You just described insurance in general, all insurance.

 

[jamesb1986]

You just described insurance in general, all insurance.

The whole basis of insurance is that it pools a large amount of risk, from that pool there will be some that never claim, some the have small claims and some that have large claims. The idea is not to NOT pay any claim its just to make the correct calculation so that the ratio of claims is such that not all large claims are in any one pool. As such when the companies do get a claim thats fair, they pay out fairly (large commercial business insurers actually do work this way and a huge selling point for such companies is the claims service).

The issue is that many companies are too greedy and many try to make money from areas or pools that ultimately do not make money unless they are that greedy.

In my case there is no escaping it, they messed up that initial calculation by allowing cover to go ahead for a car that ultimately they didnt want to cover anyway and was priced incorrectly and they are now getting screwed for it.

 

[09cs]

No its Vista Ford in Woodland Hills - Galpin are good actually and ive used them before but now just very overpriced (about a year ago they tried to charge me over $250 for just an oil change and over $1,000 to replace a seatbelt so i stopped using them).

I'm 2 blocks from Vista, always get sticker shock at the ADM they have on the cars on the lot!

 

[jamesb1986]

I'm 2 blocks from Vista, always get sticker shock at the ADM they have on the cars on the lot!

Yeah I've tried to work out a couple of deals on new cars are they have always been pricey in that regard.

The service center is decent, not the best shop I've ever dealt with (a bit pricey and sometimes service is a little slow) but they are competent and honest on jobs and pricing not to mention experienced with my specific car. A couple of the advisors are genuinely nice and knowledgeable too and as such I stick with them.

 

[jamesb1986]

UPDATE:

The warranty company have finally caved, at least to a point. It took a good few emails, a legal letter and a few strongly worded phone calls but we are finally getting somewhere.

As of today they conceded that the claim is legitimate and they are not pursuing denial and also they are no longer pursuing further tear down. What they are not doing is a full engine replacement. They claim that the initial tear down by the dealership only proves that the valve seals have failed but not definitively that there has been subsequent damage to the rest of the engine to justify a full replacement. As such they are now suggesting the head be replaced (which will include new valve stems and seals which it seems is the point of failure). I have agreed to this subject to them agreeing that if the repair doesn't work or the engine breaks again for the same reason at some point in the next two years then they will then go ahead with a full replacement at their cost (technically my warranty is valid for that long). Awaiting confirmation they agree to this, and for the revised repair estimate, but its looking very likely this is how it will play out for now.

I will make sure to have the head replacement fully documented by the dealership as well as ensuring the dealership provides an additional 12 month warranty on the repair itself. This way I have two forms of recourse, including my existing warranty with QBE, for protection if this or any related issue appears in the future.

As a side note - apparently Ford dealers are not given the tooling to get into and remove valve stems and seals and this is why the earlier proposed diagnosis was to be outsourced. The dealership claims Ford don't want main dealers messing around with this part of the engine. Not sure if that's true but seems believable to me. Furthermore it seems Ford themselves, at some level, have been involved with this claim as the dealership claims they have had multiple calls with them on my case but wont elaborate more.

The light is at the end of the tunnel and as soon as this is concluded I will post an update on here with the final results. Also if anyone else has any issues with warranties or is deciding on the purchase of one, 3rd party or not, and wants any (non legal) advice, then I am happy to help!

 

[stanglife]

Eeek. These engines (or any OHC engine, not to mention DOHC)..when they experience any kind of valvetrain failure (and most of that is in the head), it's VERY common for something else to be impacted in very short order. I'm surprised your dealer would agree to a build up at that point. Make sure you get them to agree to replace the engine if ANY catastrophic failure occurs within a certain timeframe of the repair - not just the head. This would be an easy out for them - paying for the head and then when the entire engine seizes 5 miles down the road, claiming it was some other component.

The other possibility is that even with the head replacement, it could fail even before it leaves the dealer...if they even get it to run at all. I know this sounds negative-nancy but this is why Ford doesn't promote engine tear down and repair by dealer techs - they know the odds are good there will be some other failure related to the initial damage or the engine not being reassembled properly.

Crossing my fingers for you but I have a feeling the warranty company isn't done working you over just yet.

 

[sublime1996525]

I would not want some dealer to do any internal work on my motor. I'm guessing the vast majority haven't done much more than basic maintenance. Good luck and I hope it works out. I'd be praying something else fails to get a new motor.

 

[Lorne34]

agree with the last opinions rebuilds rarely go well. In fact, Ford for the most part has insisted upon replacing the whole engine.

 

[tdstuart]

As far as I know the dealership does not have the documents to rebuild a coyote head. They don’t have the torque specs or instructions.

I am sure they can install a new head just fine. I used the ford instructions to rebuild my motor and I had only about a year of previous automotive experience in highschool.

 

[GT 550]

They claim that the initial tear down by the dealership only proves that the valve seals have failed but not definitively that there has been subsequent damage to the rest of the engine to justify a full replacement. As such they are now suggesting the head be replaced (which will include new valve stems and seals which it seems is the point of failure).

Might just be worth pressing them to find out their basis for claiming no 'subsequent damage' if there's to be no further detailed tear down. Maybe they don't want subsequent damage to be found.

If you really wanted to press them on it you'd probably need to provide an expert opinion stating that their position is unrealistic, or that no further tear down is contrary to best practice. If there's reasonable doubt about no 'subsequent damage' it might give them pause for thought.

Just my 2c.

Well played so far, hope it works out to your satisfaction.

 

[jamesb1986]

UPDATE:

Good news guys -Vista Ford completed the head replacement and things seem fine so far. Rain is pretty heaven here now so I’ve only done 25 miles or so and haven’t been able to push it too hard (I authorised a 20 mile test for Vista as well prior to my pickup) but everything seems good.

I had Vista replace all the spark plugs and do an oil change on top of the warranty job and with my deductible i came out with a $700 bill. Total bill for the warranty company was $5675 or so. Best $350 I’ve ever spent buying that warranty then.

I spoke to the tech that did the work and he is indeed one of two guys they have work on the Ford performance cars/trucks that go through there, seemed to know his stuff. They have done right by me on this and prior work so they earned keeping me as a long term customer.

I have a warranty on this specific repair now as well as my main extended warranty still running for another 2 years still so aside from the massive hassle I’m confident I’m covered financially if anything else arises. The warranty company, after many calls, emails, legal threats and weeks of work, seem to have accepted that they can’t just screw me.

I’ll give one last update in a couple of weeks with results after I’ve had chance to get some good runs on the car - wish me luck this is finally over!

 

[jamesb1986]

UPDATE:

Good news guys -Vista Ford completed the head replacement and things seem fine so far. Rain is pretty heaven here now so I’ve only done 25 miles or so and haven’t been able to push it too hard (I authorised a 20 mile test for Vista as well prior to my pickup) but everything seems good.

I had Vista replace all the spark plugs and do an oil change on top of the warranty job and with my deductible i came out with a $700 bill. Total bill for the warranty company was $5675 or so. Best $350 I’ve ever spent buying that warranty then.

I spoke to the tech that did the work and he is indeed one of two guys they have work on the Ford performance cars/trucks that go through there, seemed to know his stuff. They have done right by me on this and prior work so they earned keeping me as a long term customer.

I have a warranty on this specific repair now as well as my main extended warranty still running for another 2 years still so aside from the massive hassle I’m confident I’m covered financially if anything else arises. The warranty company, after many calls, emails, legal threats and weeks of work, seem to have accepted that they can’t just screw me.

I’ll give one last update in a couple of weeks with results after I’ve had chance to get some good runs on the car - wish me luck this is finally over!

So the car ran well for about 10 miles - but after that I noticed that something didn't quite feel right and so I shut the car off and had it towed back to the dealer. Turns out a new tensioner replaced in the repair failed in some way and so back at the dealer for a couple of weeks the car goes. Thankfully this was noticed at around 15-20mph after only a few miles and this didn't fail on a highway (or goodbye engine I fear) they accepted that this was in some way related to the repair they conducted and so agreed to make it right. They aren't sure if the part failed or it was tech error but I can guess and I probably wont ever get a straight answer on that. I do have them on record saying they accept responsibility however.

I feel like this saga is never going to end but not quite sure how I could of handled this better than I did - perhaps a seasoned independent mechanic who also knows these cars would've been a better choice providing the warranty company accepted them rather than a dealer in hindsight but I wouldn't know who to even begin with. I probably should've stumped up the extra cash (5-7k at the time) to get a 2019!

 

[stanglife]

Hope for the best. Highway speeds vs 15-20mph play little roll on the potential damage, unfortunately. When timing is involved, it's pretty sensitive. I once seized a cam, broke the cam gear and bent valves shortly after startup...at idle.

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