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700+ hp 5.2L flatplane voodoo

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Voodooo

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Look. Right now I have 531 rwhp on a completely bone stock engine. My only mods are headers and tune. My 100% stock base line dyno pulls were 454 rwhp. That's a 13.5% loss. Using this 13.5% loss at my current rwhp my crank hp is estimated at 613 crank hp. I haven't even touched the intake, heads, cams, compression etc. I am not saying getting 87 additional hp would be easy, but it is not undo able. I know my pushrod engine experience isn't the same but I've done more with less. It wasn't unheard of to get 2hp per cubic inch out of a 289 that originally had 225hp and spin it to 9k rpm. We are now talking about a 2016 engine. Not 1960s technology.
Custom head casting are not needed to reach my goal. Especially when a boss 5.0 made 598 rwhp. NA. I could bump the compression up from the stock 12.0:1, head port work, custom cams and timing, custom intake and make huge gains over stock.
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No joke. There are so many nay-sayers here arguing with straw men on assumptions :headbonk:

We have this one guy who is like "10kRPM motors are only good for like 250-500 race miles". So what? I would be willing to bet a stock GT350 wouldn't last 250-500 race miles. That's practically nonstop full throttle at the upper end of the curve. MMR has a lot of data on 9kRPM+ Coyotes. I would consult with them.

All of these arguments over CR are nonsense as well. Where the hell are all these strawmen coming from?

Now, on to brass tax, are you willing to have custom heads developed? Just to be clear, by custom, I mean entirely new castings, not modified heads. If so, it would make a huge difference in the potential.
By new castings do you mean such as aftermarket? Or new as in reworked stock heads? A aftermarket head is not needed. But a modified stock head will work with some R&R.
 

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By new castings do you mean such as aftermarket? Or new as in reworked stock heads? A aftermarket head is not needed. But a modified stock head will work with some R&R.
I'm saying a new head design, not a modification of a stock head. While it may be possible to modify stock Voodoo heads, I think you might be better served to use a clean sheet design with hemispherical Chamber's, larger ports (tangentially matched to your intake manifold and exhaust), and perhaps even a desmodromic valvetrain.
 
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I'm saying a new head design, not a modification of a stock head. While it may be possible to modify stock Voodoo heads, I think you might be better served to use a clean sheet design with hemispherical Chamber's, larger ports (tangentially matched to your intake manifold and exhaust), and perhaps even a desmodromic valvetrain.
That isn't necessary
 

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That isn't necessary
No not even close.

Are you going to drive this on the street? Don't you only have 200miles or something in the car?

Might as well do something crazy if it doesn't see public roads often.
 

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I'm saying a new head design, not a modification of a stock head. While it may be possible to modify stock Voodoo heads, I think you might be better served to use a clean sheet design with hemispherical Chamber's, larger ports (tangentially matched to your intake manifold and exhaust), and perhaps even a desmodromic valvetrain.
I have a 700 hp n/A 5.4. I built it in '06. None of that crap is needed.

I just did a rebuild and took a few pics

The heads are '05 ford GT castings. 37mm stainless intake valves, 32mm stainless exh valves, bronze guides, Stock lash adjusters and followers, Titanium retainers, double springs with 120 pounds on the seat and 280 open, The cams are custom billet with .560 lift , 248 degree intake, .560 lift 256 degree exhaust.

Nothing exotic.


Valve train

14-1 custom CP pistons
'05 Ford GT 5.4 block


Assembled head


Bottom end

Stock 5.4 crank, Manley Pro Billet Rods, 6 bolt 4340 main caps



Avaid dry sump oil system, 4 stage, This is a must to keep one alive at 9000 rpm.



No fuel injection. I run a carb on top. It makes ~700 at 8400 and 9100 at the finish line.

I'll post of it completed in a few days. Nothing exotic here. The Voodoo heads are a step above the ten year old Ford GT heads with relocated/ spread valve positions and bigger valves than i can fit in these heads.

700 is no problem. Cams are the roadblock. I dont see anybody stepping up and making a huge investment in billet cam cores for a very limited market.

The firing order and spread intake valve's make standard Coyote cores unusable.
 

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God I'm glad to see a discussion based on the understanding that this car is meant to be naturally aspirated!

The whole forced induction talk just boggles my mind. Its like putting turbo's a 911 GT3. Makes me shudder.

Anyway best of luck to you. 135HP per liter is no small feat!
 

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That isn't necessary
Like I said, you might get away with using your stock heads. The way I see it, you're going to spend the same money regardless. If it were me, I would spend it developing a head with more head-room that you could potentially sell to others later. The custom peripherals (intake manifold, cams, exhaust) will likely be one-offs and less likely to yield an ROI; should you wish to monetize your efforts in the future. I personally always lean towards marketable development.
 
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Like I said, you might get away with using your stock heads. The way I see it, you're going to spend the same money regardless. If it were me, I would spend it developing a head with more head-room that you could potentially sell to others later. The custom peripherals (intake manifold, cams, exhaust) will likely be one-offs and less likely to yield an ROI; should you wish to monetize your efforts in the future. I personally always lean towards marketable development.
700 crank hp is not that far off. Their is absolutely no need for a custom head. This isn't a pushrod 289/302/351. Stock these heads flow like a Yates head. I'm not looking to research and develope a new set of heads for a aftermarket company. I think you last mentioned $50000.00 for this engine build. No way.
 

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No not even close.

Are you going to drive this on the street? Don't you only have 200miles or something in the car?

Might as well do something crazy if it doesn't see public roads often.
Voodoo is redefining "Garage Queen". :thumbsup:
 

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No not even close.

Are you going to drive this on the street? Don't you only have 200miles or something in the car?

Might as well do something crazy if it doesn't see public roads often.
My reason for only having 218 miles on the car is because my business takes up a lot of my time. Plus other projects I have going on. But I will enjoy street and track time with it when time allows. Before this car I built two 8 second naturally aspirated 401 svo Windsor Yates headed and a Brodix Neal headed fox bodies, my dad and I also built a 9 second naturally aspirated 289 falcon. I'm not looking to go that fast with my gt350 and I would not drag race it anyhow, but I would at some point like to build a 700 crank hp naturally aspirated voodoo and I know it can be done with stock block, crank and heads with the right work.
 
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It's a garage queen at the moment but I wouldn't do the prototyping for ARH long tubes last winter if I didn't plan on using it, nor would I be doing all of the suspension work I'm currently doing now if I planed on it just sitting. As of right now I have the front and rear suspension completely removed from the car. http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63785&highlight=Axles
 

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There's no way to know what the stock heads can or can't do without basic information that can only be had by flowbench testing them with different cam profiles. Once you've reached the max flow of the heads with a workable cam setup, you would need to work backwards through the intake system to ensure proper flow capabilities, and forward through the exhaust for the same reasons. Plus, on the exhaust system, you would want to work not only on flow, but tuning to the intake and cam profiles for scavenging.

Once you've got the specs for the top end, you'd need to build the bottom end to handle the necessary RPM, whatever that might be. If you could get the top to flow enough to make 700 HP under 9k RPM, you *might* get by with the stock components, but I don't know if I would trust them. I think the weak link is probably the rods. Not sure if the block would hold up either, but I haven't been inside a Coyote or Voodoo, so I can't say for sure. Definitely want to upgrade stock rotating components outside the engine - balancer, flywheel, clutch...

Sounds fun. Who's got the bag o' cash? :D
 

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700 crank hp is not that far off. Their is absolutely no need for a custom head. This isn't a pushrod 289/302/351. Stock these heads flow like a Yates head. I'm not looking to research and develope a new set of heads for a aftermarket company. I think you last mentioned $50000.00 for this engine build. No way.
I'm going to abstain from an opinion at this point because it's your project, your capital, and your decision momentum has far surpassed my influence. I would consult [MENTION=10628]Mod Mustang Racing[/MENTION] concerning your needs. They are THE guys to talk to.
 
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If a roadrunner 5.0 can make 593 rwhp N/A so can a voodoo. I would never depend on the stock rods / Pistons etc.
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