5.4 stroker coyote ?

[BlackandBlue]

My question is how much of the lower pistons skirt would be out of the block at bottom dead center on a stroked Coyote? As more skirt "sticks" out of the bore, the more the piston can tilt/rock = more wear and friction. Skirt support is critical for any engine, and this is especially so in a stroked motor.

5.5 Coyote, heck yea', I'm all for extra cubes, nothing like more torque.

I have a very low mileage complete 2019 5.0 Coyote I am gong to build, so I'm very interested in more cubes.

I am with you on the skirt length. Ford increased bore from the 5.0 to 5.2 for a reason verses stroking the motor for a few reasons.

1. Skirt dept to shallow causing piston slap/rubbing.
2. Oversquare engines are not good for long flat torque curves. Torque peaks much sooner.
3. Ring speeds are much higher with oversquare engines. Light pistons are also needed if the same redline is to be maintained. Rod and crank forces will always be higher.
4. Heat generated from higher piston/ring speeds as not good for boosted applications due to the higher cylinder temps from friction. Detonation is an unwelcome side effect.
5. High parasitic loss due to higher ring friction.
6. Shorter ring life.

I would be careful playing with boosted undersquare engines.

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[olaosunt]

I am with you on the skirt length. Ford increased bore from the 5.0 to 5.2 for a reason verses stroking the motor for a few reasons.

1. Skirt dept to shallow causing piston slap/rubbing.
2. Oversquare engines are not good for long flat torque curves. Torque peaks much sooner.
3. Ring speeds are much higher with oversquare engines. Light pistons are also needed if the same redline is to be maintained. Rod and crank forces will always be higher.
4. Heat generated from higher piston/ring speeds as not good for boosted applications due to the higher cylinder temps from friction. Detonation is an unwelcome side effect.
5. High parasitic loss due to higher ring friction.
6. Shorter ring life.

I would be careful playing with boosted undersquare engines.

Gulp ! May be not so nice .
...and I thought you were my “friend” when you were encouraging me to build one .lol
More like my “Huckleberry “.

 

[engineermike]

Keep in mind that even the most ridiculous stroke length we’re talking about (3.9”) is still much shorter than the stock 5.4/5.8.

 

[DavidHuff]

Oh yeah brotha mine exited stage left in dramatic fashion!

My fault really, I was showing off for a buddy on about 15 psi with less than 1/4 tank of fuel.

Went lean and munched #3 piston.

Moral of story... DO NOT beat on your car with any less than 1/2 tank!

Good Luck with your new build,were you able so save your stock heads?Post some pictures of your new motor build.

 

[bauern]

I wonder if the Gen 3 coyote also shares the additional “cast in brace “ found on the Gen 2/3 voodoo/predator ?

the intake surface is similar ,as all of them have the six bosses for knock sensors so I wonder if they all use the same casting ?

The Gen 3 has a much more open deck than the Predator block. https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6010-M504VC

 

[gimmie11s]

Good Luck with your new build,were you able so save your stock heads?Post some pictures of your new motor build.

Thanks... I’ll definitely start a thread once I tear into it. I haven’t pulled heads yet but fingers crossed on that passenger side! Drivers side will be fine.

 

[bauern]

Keep in mind that even the most ridiculous stroke length we’re talking about (3.9”) is still much shorter than the stock 5.4/5.8.

Those blocks have higher deck heights. For a stroker Coyote/Voodoo you'll need longer rods,shorter pistons. The piston has a height of 1.168 - 1.174 depending on generation so the pin will be in the oil ring at least. Mathematically, the piston is ~.012 below the deck so you might have some room there but you'll be eating up piston to valve clearance.

 

[olaosunt]

The Gen 3 has a much more open deck than the Predator block. https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6010-M504VC

The Gen 3 has a much more open deck than the Predator block. https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6010-M504VC

Thanks man . I know you had a lot of experience with these builds but I can’t really see the difference based on the pics on the website .

Also any thoughts on using a coyote crank vs the longer stroke predator /ford racing crank in a 5.2 CP build ?

I know the stroke is 0.012 shorter , and as you pointed out the piston will be below the deck .
Also I expect 11.9 vs 12.1 compression and 3 cu inches less (which I doubt I will notice on a mostly street car ) with the coyote crank , but is there any difference in the strength (both fillet rolled ?)
Thanks

 

[olaosunt]

Here is real life pic of a predator block .
I believe it’s the same as the Gen 3. 5.2/voodoo.

Below that is a pic comparing the “Gen 2 “ voodoo to the Gen 1 .
I think the only difference between Gen 2 and 3 voodoo is the oil squirters that come with 3.

 

[bauern]

Thanks man . I know you had a lot of experience with these builds but I can’t really see the difference based on the pics on the website .

Also any thoughts on using a coyote crank vs the longer stroke predator /ford racing crank in a 5.2 CP build ?

I know the stroke is 0.012 shorter , and as you pointed out the piston will be below the deck .
Also I expect 11.9 vs 12.1 compression and 3 cu inches less (which I doubt I will notice on a mostly street car ) with the coyote crank , but is there any difference in the strength (both fillet rolled ?)

You'll loose some quench but you can play with the tune.
For a street build it's tough to justify the 5.2 crank. The difference is 8 c.i. 5.2L (315 c.i.) vs. Gen 3 (307 c.i.).

 

[bauern]

Here is real life pic of a predator block .
I believe it’s the same as the Gen 3. 5.2/voodoo.

Is the top one the KR3z-6010 or M-6010-M52B?

 

[olaosunt]

You'll loose some quench but you can play with the tune.
For a street build it's tough to justify the 5.2 crank. The difference is 8 c.i. 5.2L (315 c.i.) vs. Gen 3 (307 c.i.).

Thanks man . That’s answer I have been looking for . Lol
I also read about the loss of “quench “ with slightly shorter stroke crank but it’s good to know the tune could take care of that .
I also thought with the longer stroke crank (3.661) you got 317 C.I (a true 5.2 ) versus 314 C.I(5.15) with the coyote crank(3.649) ?

 

[engineermike]

.... The piston has a height of 1.168 - 1.174 depending on generation so the pin will be in the oil ring at least.....

I wouldn’t recommend running the pin in the oil ring, which is where the 5.85” rods come in, as pointed out earlier.

 

[bauern]

I wouldn’t recommend running the pin in the oil ring, which is where the 5.85” rods come in, as pointed out earlier.

And the 5.85 rod pulls the piston further out of the bore.

 

[olaosunt]

Is the top one the KR3z-6010 or M-6010-M52B?

The top one is the KR3Z-6010-A . I think the M-6010-M52B is just the Ford racing version .

The one below (in the pic comparing to Gen 1 )is the M-6010-M52A - Gen 2 .
That is what RPG used to build the block that Is in my Hellion car .
I believe it’s the same as the GR3Z-6010-F (E is discontinued)which may be what they are using in the Voodoo/GT350.
That’s the one I ordered for my build
It’s a few hundred cheaper than the KR3Z-6010.

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