10R80 Adaptive Learning with different drive modes

[Joe Gonsalves]

Hey, does anyone know if there are separate 10R80 adaptive learning tables for each drive mode? I cleared the tables and allowed the normal driving mode to relearn for 100 miles. Seems so much better now. However, when using sport plus mode the car shifts like crap from 3 to 4 and real bad 4 to 5 only when being aggressive. If the car just putts along it's fairly smooth. The strange thing was prior to clearing the table, normal was horrible and sport plus was good, not perfect, but much better than it is now. The 4 to 5 shift is keeping the fun way low for me since it feels like a manual trans being bang shifted. Are not the learning tables shared between drive modes or are they separate? Also using FORSCAN I see that you can HALT learning and STOP learning. What's the difference? My best guess is that HALT stops updating the learning table and uses the paused values, and STOP means don't use the learning table at all. I've searched around and can find nothing on these subjects. Any insight will help.

So some observations as how I perceive the 10R80 adaptive learning learns. These are not provable facts just my perceptions. I believe that there are separate adaptive learning tables for each drive mode. I also think that the TCM reads the table each time the car is started, but as you drive the TCM switches from "read" mode to "write" mode and updates as you drive. I feel as though it can't do read and write dynamically, so the next time you start the car you get the updated values. This explains why it always drives better the next day for me. Also my opinion is once the car shifts smoothly and you are happy with it in all drive modes, you should "HALT" learning in FORSCAN. This will allow it to use the stored "good" values and not to populate the tables with learned bad behavior. Until we get a Ford service guy to break it down for us, it's just my 2 cents and as I stated not provable fact.

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[SnowFox]

That's a really good question I hope somebody has an answer.

 

[Robottrainer]

There are alot of mysteries about this trans. Different folks have bits an pieces of how this thing works. They are very helpful. hopefully someone that knows will chime in.

 

[Cobra Jet]

This may be the thread you’re seeking:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...daptive-learning-transmission-options.190874/

 

[K4fxd]

Looking through an A10 stock tune it appears the adaptive is mode dependent. When I look into the modes it looks like they are zeroed out. In other words not used.

I'm no expert

@Rolls do you know?

 

[Buldawg76]

I also hope someone on the forum has some answers.

BD

 

[engineermike]

There are about a zillion parameters in PCMtec regarding trans adapt. A quick scan seems to indicate the learning is specific to drive mode.

 

[engineermike]

This sounds interesting:

PON = Power on
POF = Power off
ALT2 = Shift firmness typically assigned to Drag mode
ALT1 = Shift firmness typically assigned to Sport mode
The rest I don't know. The table is 229 cells and populated with all values 63, 191, or 255.

 

[Qcman17]

Looking through an A10 stock tune it appears the adaptive is mode dependent. When I look into the modes it looks like they are zeroed out. In other words not used.

I'm no expert

@Rolls do you know?

Does this mean that the trans only learns in normal mode but none of the other modes?

 

[K4fxd]

Does this mean that the trans only learns in normal mode but none of the other modes?

I only looked at 2 tables when I posted, there are lots more. It adapts in every mode.

 

[Rolls]

Each mode learns seperately as a clutch is more likely to slip in certain drive modes than others.

 

[Joe Gonsalves]

Thanks guys for chiming in. We're getting closer to the answer, and some of my assumptions that there are separate tables per driving mode is proving out. Latest update, 300 miles after resetting the adaptive learning table and normal mode is driving great. Sport + is much better but not to a point where I love it. While in Sport +, driving normally is as good as normal mode, get aggressive and the shifts from 4 to 5 still needs work.
Engineermike where did you find that info? You can read the table?

 

[engineermike]

The table is readable in pcmtec but I’m afraid the data in it isn’t very easy to comprehend. There are dozens more associated tables, possibly hundreds. It’s obscenely complicated.

 

[K4fxd]

It is Auf75006, search "enable per shi" as there are a few others.

It isn't defined very well. Maybe @Rolls could help

 

[Rolls]

It is Auf75006, search "enable per shi" as there are a few others.

It isn't defined very well. Maybe @Rolls could help

The 10R80 code appears to have been generated by simulink/matlab style software, eg its computer generated code. As such deciphering how it works via reading code (especially assembly) was never the intent of Ford, this means something that would take a human a year to write (and not be completely obscene to comprehend) takes a few weeks but is perhaps a few orders of magnitude more complex in terms of number of tables, inputs outputs etc.

A lot of tables are chained together with indexes, eg shift character etc which tell the computer which row/column is being used. Those characters are then decided by other logic that is more human readable.

This is simply how it is, we expose everything as otherwise you only see a small part of the picture giving you the illusion of it being simple when it is not. It is also why there are not many people who tune 10R80s beyond mild tweaks.

The best method is to compare say ALT1 and ALT2 of several maps (eg drag and sport in a Mustang) and see what Ford has done, you then figure out some ideas of what you might want to change.

Our software allows you to pick two stock files and compare them to assist in this. Here is an example.

Then for example you can see they have changed the active exhaust (and many other things) between the two years/models.

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