Whipple vs Procharger

[phunk]

Are you implying there is a second IAT sensor? I am new to this platform and I was hoping that the MAF's IAT was not the only one. I have never done a pull-through MAF on a boosted car and was curious about IATs post-blower with a PD setup.

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[Grim_Reaper]

Yes, on 91-octane. Other than the cost, there is no other reason not to go with the bigger TB, it drives like its stock except when you want it.

The PCM is extremely advanced and detects and calculates the power the engine is making. When calibrated correctly, it will adjust accordingly. Because we use IAT1 and IAT2 and the vehicles have wide band air fuel sensors, knock sensors and MAF, the PCM will adjust and take the power away. Example, if you drove across country and started in Cali and went to NY, you could start at a nice 85deg F day. Go through some of the mid-west and you can get to -20deg F. The density change due to temp is so severe that if the motor could take it, would make another 100+hp just due to the temp. Issue is, the injectors, fuel pump, etc. would not have enough capacity to stay safe, therefore it will auto adjust to limit the power to keep fuel system in a safe zone. Therefore, you don't need extra fail safes, there already there.

W/M works best being sprayed at the port like the fuel injector but this is difficult to do in these motors. But in that situation, you could lose 20-30hp easily if spraying just a small amount in without changing tune to get more aggressive. The best option if you have to install it, is run it through the SC inlet, therefore cooling the aircharge during boost. This will not really change the tune, but can possibly lower IAT2 temp slightly and most of the water will evaporate as it goes through the SC. This will not get a big number like below the IC/SC, but is easier and can result in some noticeable gains.

You are killing it with this wealth of knowledge! Appreciate it a lot. I like the use of a real world scenario as well since that is exactly the type of stuff I will be encountering. The car will be my daily driver and wknd track car occasionally.

My intent was to use it for the second of the two methods but if it's not needed then I will spend the money elsewhere.

 

[Whipple SC]

You are killing it with this wealth of knowledge! Appreciate it a lot. I like the use of a real world scenario as well since that is exactly the type of stuff I will be encountering. The car will be my daily driver and wknd track car occasionally.

My intent was to use it for the second of the two methods but if it's not needed then I will spend the money elsewhere.

If your going to take it to Spring Mountain and some other great places to track it, I would recommend getting a bigger/better engine radiator and there's some oil issues on the motor's that will need some upgrades (small inexpensive). With that power, the engine will have a hard time staying cool in hot area's after 5-10 hard laps. There's some parts coming very shortly to fix the oil issue, but in general, the car's run out of oil very quickly with the high g-forces.

And no problem, while we want you to purchase one of ours, we understand everyone has a certain want and we hope the public can just have the proper info to make the decision based off just that.

 

[Whipple SC]

Are you implying there is a second IAT sensor? I am new to this platform and I was hoping that the MAF's IAT was not the only one. I have never done a pull-through MAF on a boosted car and was curious about IATs post-blower with a PD setup.

Yes, all our kits come with the stock GT500 air temp sensor in the intake manifold, post IC and a pigtail to plug it into the factory harness. The factory MAF wire's stay in place and untouched.

Tuner kit's have to take the MAF temp wire and move it post IC as they don't have the ability to run 2 sensors. Some leave it in MAF and just "predict" the temp which does work ok, just not when there is IC pump failure, etc. But it does work both ways, just safer to have 2.

 

[Grim_Reaper]

If your going to take it to Spring Mountain and some other great places to track it, I would recommend getting a bigger/better engine radiator and there's some oil issues on the motor's that will need some upgrades (small inexpensive). With that power, the engine will have a hard time staying cool in hot area's after 5-10 hard laps. There's some parts coming very shortly to fix the oil issue, but in general, the car's run out of oil very quickly with the high g-forces.

And no problem, while we want you to purchase one of ours, we understand everyone has a certain want and we hope the public can just have the proper info to make the decision based off just that.

Do you guys have a recommended larger radiator that won't conflict with fitment of the kit, especially with the dual 11" fans? Also for oil issues are you referring to upgrading to billet oil pump gears? I was planning on that as well. Can you say if you'll be releasing any oil coolers to go with the kit? if not what would you recommend?

 

[phunk]

That is great to hear. Just because I am curious now... it sounds like our PCM has an unused but available input for this secondary IAT, and you are utilizing this, and that part of your PCM reflash service is to "activate" this input and switch to using it for temperature correction rather than the MAF's IAT. Am I close on this?

And just for curiosity sake, which IAT sensor is the intake temp indication on the gauge cluster coming from? Still the MAF or is it switched to the plenum sensor?

 

[Whipple SC]

Do you guys have a recommended larger radiator that won't conflict with fitment of the kit, especially with the dual 11" fans? Also for oil issues are you referring to upgrading to billet oil pump gears? I was planning on that as well. Can you say if you'll be releasing any oil coolers to go with the kit? if not what would you recommend?

Were working on our own engine radiator that will be a drop in upgrade but there is a few coming out very quickly. I don't see any fitment issues. Trans cooler only needed on auto's. Not sure which you have.

Billet oil pump gears are nice, not mandatory though. Much simpler then that. I wish I could share it, but can't take away from other's until they release the product as they discovered it and fixed it.

 

[Whipple SC]

That is great to hear. Just because I am curious now... it sounds like our PCM has an unused but available input for this secondary IAT, and you are utilizing this, and that part of your PCM reflash service is to "activate" this input and switch to using it for temperature correction rather than the MAF's IAT. Am I close on this?

And just for curiosity sake, which IAT sensor is the intake temp indication on the gauge cluster coming from? Still the MAF or is it switched to the plenum sensor?

Yes, that's correct. We then have custom software that uses the temp differential in its logic for supercharger modeling and predictive torque.

Gauge cluster is IAT1 (MAF). Working on changing that, but its not an easy task. Boost and AF is calculated as well in the cluster, and its close but not 100% accurate.

 

[Grim_Reaper]

Were working on our own engine radiator that will be a drop in upgrade but there is a few coming out very quickly. I don't see any fitment issues. Trans cooler only needed on auto's. Not sure which you have.

Billet oil pump gears are nice, not mandatory though. Much simpler then that. I wish I could share it, but can't take away from other's until they release the product as they discovered it and fixed it.

Good to know! I still have some time before making any purchases so I will be looking forward to seeing what you release for both radiator and oil issues.

Quick question, why hasn't this oil issue been mentioned previously? is it not something prevelant or just not been encountered yet?

 

[Whipple SC]

Good to know! I still have some time before making any purchases so I will be looking forward to seeing what you release for both radiator and oil issues.

Quick question, why hasn't this oil issue been mentioned previously? is it not something prevelant or just not been encountered yet?

It's only a track issue, never an issue on the street/city. The 15's made some changes, not really an issue on the 11-14.

 

[Grim_Reaper]

It's only a track issue, never an issue on the street/city. The 15's made some changes, not really an issue on the 11-14.

Ah I am guessing it has to do with the oil feed/pick up tube and lack of baffling in the oil pan. My FR-S had that same issue. Good to know it's not a needed thing for street/city.

 

[phunk]

Yes, that's correct. We then have custom software that uses the temp differential in its logic for supercharger modeling and predictive torque.

Gauge cluster is IAT1 (MAF). Working on changing that, but its not an easy task. Boost and AF is calculated as well in the cluster, and its close but not 100% accurate.

Thanks I really appreciate the details.

Last question set for now: I am awaiting arrival of the full kit, minus throttle. I was going to order your throttle any moment now and then make the switch on the dyno just for fun. Do you change the calibration based on what throttle we are using? I was thinking its probably the same cal (small throttle acts much like big one partly open), but since I have your attention thought I would ask.

Then... after a couple good weeks of enjoying the system as served... I have some ID1000s and im going to rework my fuel pump and plumbing and make the switch to E85. Will the route that I take to retune with the fuel change be any different after you guys have made your changes to the PCM... or will I just pretend all that never happened and proceed as I would have with a tuner kit?

 

[Whipple SC]

Thanks I really appreciate the details.

Last question set for now: I am awaiting arrival of the full kit, minus throttle. I was going to order your throttle any moment now and then make the switch on the dyno just for fun. Do you change the calibration based on what throttle we are using? I was thinking its probably the same cal (small throttle acts much like big one partly open), but since I have your attention thought I would ask.

Then... after a couple good weeks of enjoying the system as served... I have some ID1000s and im going to rework my fuel pump and plumbing and make the switch to E85. Will the route that I take to retune with the fuel change be any different after you guys have made your changes to the PCM... or will I just pretend all that never happened and proceed as I would have with a tuner kit?

It will run on the dyno with either cal but the pedal mapping and airflow demand is very different so on the street it would feel awful with the wrong cal. So yes there is 2 different cals. Its cheaper to get with the big TB now, as the plastic air inlet, silicone hose and TB adapter are all different. If you by at one time the parts are swapped, but doing after mean's you need these parts.

The kit itself would be the same, but if you're going E85, a tuner kit is better as the fuel injectors and calibration are gonna be different. Fuel rails and fuel fittings/hoses are still supplied. As for the PCM, if your using our tune, you will need it flashed back to stock to make changes. A dealer or we can do this for you. Our future flash device will handle this but its not quite ready yet.

 

[Whipple SC]

Here's a fun video of Hennessey taking a Whipple'd Mustang around.

 

[phunk]

Ah yes great point I had not considered the throttle mapping itself. I wasn't worried about the extra parts as I was curious just to see the difference and that would be worth the entertainment for me... But I obviously hadn't thought it through all the way. Thanks.

I suppose I should change the order to include the throttle from the get-go and forget screwing around with the stock one.

After having some fun with the pump gas tune maybe ill call in and see if you guys feel close on your flash device before jumping on the e85.

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