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GreenS550

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I stated some months ago that I wanted to make a comparison between the complete kits of Whipple stage 1 with the supplied Whipple stage 1 tune compared to the Procharger Stage 1 with Procharger's supplied tune. Here is my review so far.

The Whipple setup was on my 2019 Bullitt and the Procharger setup is on my 2018 Mustang GT 10 speed auto. Both cars otherwise stock. The kits were within $100 of each other, so I though it was a goo comparison. I know aftermarket tunes might help, but this is "stock vs stock".

Whipple: Tune spot on. Lower torque. Since it is a manual trans, no opinion on shifting. Started and ran excellent. Intake air temps were only 30-40 F higher than the outside temp. 676 RWHP at 7,800 RPM SAE.

Procharger install was 1/2 the time of the Whipple. Car started and drove like stock except for WOT. In that case, the car acts very weird and lets off at the shift which is very irritating. In higher speeds, the downshift and high rpm shift is good sometimes, but other times the car will stay at a lower RPM like it isn't getting enough throttle. Very weird. I emailed Procharger and they told me to datalog. I asked what PIDs they needed and they told me to look online. In the past tuners told me the PIDs or sent me an email with a file that I attached the datallog to.

The power at 6.50 PSI is not close to the power of the Whipple. The acceleration is smooth and very linear. Intake temps are high in my opinion, about 90F higher than ambient temps.

The quality of the parts are good from both with fairly good install instructions. However the Whipple kit comes with pre-made hoses with OEM style ends and attachments. Since it requires wiring for the intercooler, etc, it is very complete with OEM style snap/click style parts. The Procharger has hoses you cut and I probably used 15 worm style clamps. They work, but more crude.

Summary so far: I like the linear power of the Procharger. I liked the torque of the Whipple, but the Whipple also had it on the upper end. I know some folks will say: "we told you to get the stage 2 kit". I wanted a fair comparison on entry level kits. Perhaps after datalogging the Procharger and a tune revision will change my mind. Still struggling to understand the higher IATs, though.
 
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Soulja4187

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If you don't mind me asking how much did you pay to get your whipple and pro charger installed?
 

GreenS550

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I did both installs myself. The procharger is about 1/2 the time to install. But, it's interesting. After doing both (and a Vortech several years ago: horrible to install on the car I had then), I could do either in a much shorter time. Experience. Beefcake quoted me $1,200 on the Whipple install last year. I was going to have them do it originally, but it was a hassle on the timing and distance.
 

GreenS550

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On another note, I do not know how good the Whipple tune would have been on an automatic car as far as shifting goes, though.
 

80FoxCoupe

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Elaborate more on the Iat issue so we can help you out.
 

GreenS550

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Elaborate more on the Iat issue so we can help you out.
Since I also have a shifting issue and the car lets off and sits for a few seconds at 4-5K when at WOT, Procharger wants me to do a Datalog, but said for me to check online how to do it and never gave me the PIDs. Another person on this forum gave me suggestions which I will use. When I do the datalog I will pay closer attention to the behavior of the temps and report back. If you have suggestions on which parameters to datalog, that would be very helpful.
Thanks!
 

Torinate

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Yea, those IATs seem high, especially on the Procharger!
 

80FoxCoupe

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Yea, those IATs seem high, especially on the Procharger!
That depends. On a pass at higher boost levels, 90 over ambient is typical.
 

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Torinate

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Thanks. Didn’t realize they got that hot. Looks like he’s running 6.5 right now.
 

80FoxCoupe

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Torinate

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Well, maybe not compared to my old Vortech fox body with no intercooler what so ever. But, I would say +90* on 6.5 Psi ain’t great. So on an 80* day, looking at IAT of 170*. Does the tune pull timing at high intake temps and what is that threshold as far as temps?
To me, it seems high.
 

80FoxCoupe

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Well, maybe not compared to my old Vortech fox body with no intercooler what so ever. But, I would say +90* on 6.5 Psi ain’t great. So on an 80* day, looking at IAT of 170*. Does the tune pull timing at high intake temps and what is that threshold as far as temps?
To me, it seems high.
It would be high for that tiny amount of boost pressure. But in the grand scheme of boosted engines and air to air intercoolers, 90 over ambient at the stripe is nothing.
 

80FoxCoupe

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Well, maybe not compared to my old Vortech fox body with no intercooler what so ever. But, I would say +90* on 6.5 Psi ain’t great. So on an 80* day, looking at IAT of 170*. Does the tune pull timing at high intake temps and what is that threshold as far as temps?
To me, it seems high.
Keep in mind when i mention a certain increase over ambient, im talking about WOT at the end of a quarter mile pass. On my car, iat will start at ambient and increase in a linear fashion approx 85deg by the end of the pass. D1x, 1100whp. When ambient temps are low say 50deg, IC efficiency goes up and increase will be less, say 75 ish
 

engineermike

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Well, maybe not compared to my old Vortech fox body with no intercooler what so ever. But, I would say +90* on 6.5 Psi ain’t great. So on an 80* day, looking at IAT of 170*. Does the tune pull timing at high intake temps and what is that threshold as far as temps?
Most cals, even stock, start reducing borderline knock spark timing at 100 deg F iat However, this is usually misunderstood. Borderline spark timing is when the PCM expects to see knock, but knock retard or advance is still added to or subtracted from that. Borderline knock commanded is also corrected by coolant temp and lambda. If the cal doesn’t reduce timing due to IAT then it would be reduced by knock response anyway. The reduction due to iat just sends it to a more accurate starting point.

The only time the iat correction could reduce power by itself is if you’re achieving max knock advance.
 
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Torinate

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Keep in mind when i mention a certain increase over ambient, im talking about WOT at the end of a quarter mile pass. On my car, iat will start at ambient and increase in a linear fashion approx 85deg by the end of the pass. D1x, 1100whp. When ambient temps are low say 50deg, IC efficiency goes up and increase will be less, say 75 ish
Most cals, even stock, start reducing borderline knock spark timing at 100 deg F. However, this is usually misunderstood. Borderline spark timing is when the PCM expects to see knock, but knock retard and or advance is still added to or subtracted from that. Borderline knock commanded is also corrected by coolant temp and lambda. If the cal doesn’t reduce timing due to IAT then it would be reduced by knock response anyway. The reduction due to iat just sends it to a more accurate starting point.

The only time the iat correction could reduce power by itself is if you’re achieving max knock advance.
Thanks for the clarification. Much appreciated.
 

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