Ford previews 4-door Mustang hybrid sedan (Mach-4) to dealers

[RocketGuy3]

I also see those that in the past would’ve been a sport coupe buyer opt for different experiences. Such as travel, expensive restaurants, concerts, etc. I think some of it is just a generational change. They want to do things differently than we did. Cars aren’t an experience for them. Affordability is part of it for sure, but there are several 20-something’s right out of college that I know that are traveling for 2 weeks at a time all over the world. They don’t care what kind of car they drive or saving for a house. They want the travel experience now instead.

True, changing cultures and desires is certainly part of it. It was less common for young Americans to think about flying abroad for fun a few decades ago. But I still think the primary factor globally is finances. The disposable income you need to buy a new V8 Mustang or to have a second (or third) car just for fun if you have a family is a lot less common.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cu...461/income-inequality-is-killing-sports-cars/

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[HoldenSSVandGT350]

I also see those that in the past would’ve been a sport coupe buyer opt for different experiences. Such as travel, expensive restaurants, concerts, etc. I think some of it is just a generational change. They want to do things differently than we did. Cars aren’t an experience for them. Affordability is part of it for sure, but there are several 20-something’s right out of college that I know that are traveling for 2 weeks at a time all over the world. They don’t care what kind of car they drive or saving for a house. They want the travel experience now instead.

This is on the money. Our son is 25 and he and his fiancée travel 3-4 times per year and enjoy other recreation that isn’t free lol. Same for their group of friends. However, I taught him the ways of the manual early and when he started at GM IT Center fresh out of business school he snagged an employee priced ‘23 SS 1LE w/Tremec. Kept it exactly 1 year and traded it in on a 9k mile ‘17 ZL1 manual. Half of his friends are in love with it and the other half do not understand why cars like that still exist haha. He’s slowing bringing that group around to enlightenment…

 

[MAGS1]

This is on the money. Our son is 25 and he and his fiancée travel 3-4 times per year and enjoy other recreation that isn’t free lol. Same for their group of friends. However, I taught him the ways of the manual early and when he started at GM IT Center fresh out of business school he snagged an employee priced ‘23 SS 1LE w/Tremec. Kept it exactly 1 year and traded it in on a 9k mile ‘17 ZL1 manual. Half of his friends are in love with it and the other half do not understand why cars like that still exist haha. He’s slowing bringing that group around to enlightenment…

Glad to hear he’s learned the ways of the manual and can enjoy both a ZL1 and travel. I too am lucky that I was able to pass the car bug along to my son, he’s a senior in high school. He’s got a hand me down SUV for now, but he does want to learn to drive a manual. Wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up in a sports car of some kind in the next few years

 

[PVAMT]

This is why Ford is doing what they’re doing. The fall in Mustang sales has been swift the last few generations. Ford family wants the Mustang to live on, rapidly shrinking sales of the 2 door aren’t going to do it. Expand the brand, or the brand dies.

That’s because they turned the Mustang into an ugly car with an interior nobody wanted

 

[MAGS1]

That’s because they turned the Mustang into an ugly car with an interior nobody wanted

Seriously? Explain the huge drop from Foxbody to SN95 and SN95 to S197 and S197 to S550 then. Not sure what the S650 interior has to do with sales that have been on a massive decline since the end of the Fox.

 

[Cobra Jet]

This is why Ford is doing what they’re doing. The fall in Mustang sales has been swift the last few generations. Ford family wants the Mustang to live on, rapidly shrinking sales of the 2 door aren’t going to do it. Expand the brand, or the brand dies.

Decent chart… but don’t know the source OR accuracy in those numbers.

Didn’t take rocket scientists to know the S650 was a fail no sooner the prototype and spy images emerged. Ford had the chance to turn that turd around when everyone was saying how it looks like a Camaro and complained about how the stick on iPads are a horrible layout…. And you would think they would have redesigned the dash by now to be more ergonomic and actually sink the displays back INTO the dash so it looks BETTER…. But hey, what does the buying consumer public know - but proves it to Ford by the poor sales, period.

You can put all the power you want into the S650, and call it this or that “special edition” but if the dash and body is just horrible and that’s what sells a vehicle 90% of the time, it’s never going to meet prior year sales. The S650 interior ergonomics are garbage and the exterior looks like an average deceased GM Camaro or a Dodge Brothers retro Charger/Challenger etc - then sales will suck, I mean look at that HUGE drop after 2023…. THAT right there should have been a HUGE red flag screaming back at Ford that there’s something inherently wrong with the S650 design.

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Had Ford taken the S550 platform and added a hybrid or all electric version to the product line with both a fastback and convertible - those would have sold FAR better and appealed to consumers who want a Mustang but want to join the “EV” crowd…. They would have sold more units than the MOCH-E SUV. Ford missed the boat by not having that offering but instead going with an SUV platform that was shared with VW.

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While a 4-door may appeal to some, a 4-door Mustang (with a dumb name like “Mach4”) is NOT going to be the savior and make Mustang sales sky rocket. You can dream, but I’m hear to squash the dream now; there’s no way a 4-door Mustang is going to sell so many units it will “close the gap” to meet or exceed the S550 sales figures OR any sales figures prior to the S550. I’m sure units will sell, but someone needs to get the design team to be more creative with the interior, exterior, and at least (bare minimum) come up with better naming conventions than “Mach4”.

—

Where’s the data coming from that is saying that “20 somethings” want a 4-door Mustang, or that they want a Mustang at all? I’m laughing at those statements in this thread…. I mean, is it factual, or is this some TikTot nonsense?

Ford needs changes internally and the slate needs to be wiped clean…. I mean seriously, how many iterations of a pickup truck, in all different names/sizes/configurations is needed by and under ONE Brand? It’s laughable and their recalls, excessive warranty repairs (in the billions) and ignorance of what the consumer wants is only diluting them quicker while other Vehicle Manufacturers are outpacing them and thinking outside the box.

 

[HoldenSSVandGT350]

Decent chart… but don’t know the source OR accuracy in those numbers.

Didn’t take rocket scientists to know the S650 was a fail no sooner the prototype and spy images emerged. Ford had the chance to turn that turd around when everyone was saying how it looks like a Camaro and complained about how the stick on iPads are a horrible layout…. And you would think they would have redesigned the dash by now to be more ergonomic and actually sink the displays back INTO the dash so it looks BETTER…. But hey, what does the buying consumer public know - but proves it to Ford by the poor sales, period.

You can put all the power you want into the S650, and call it this or that “special edition” but if the dash and body is just horrible and that’s what sells a vehicle 90% of the time, it’s never going to meet prior year sales. The S650 interior ergonomics are garbage and the exterior looks like an average deceased GM Camaro or a Dodge Brothers retro Charger/Challenger etc - then sales will suck, I mean look at that HUGE drop after 2023…. THAT right there should have been a HUGE red flag screaming back at Ford that there’s something inherently wrong with the S650 design.

—

Had Ford taken the S550 platform and added a hybrid or all electric version to the product line with both a fastback and convertible - those would have sold FAR better and appealed to consumers who want a Mustang but want to join the “EV” crowd…. They would have sold more units than the MOCH-E SUV. Ford missed the boat by not having that offering but instead going with an SUV platform that was shared with VW.

—

While a 4-door may appeal to some, a 4-door Mustang (with a dumb name like “Mach4”) is NOT going to be the savior and make Mustang sales sky rocket. You can dream, but I’m hear to squash the dream now; there’s no way a 4-door Mustang is going to sell so many units it will “close the gap” to meet or exceed the S550 sales figures OR any sales figures prior to the S550. I’m sure units will sell, but someone needs to get the design team to be more creative with the interior, exterior, and at least (bare minimum) come up with better naming conventions than “Mach4”.

—

Where’s the data coming from that is saying that “20 somethings” want a 4-door Mustang, or that they want a Mustang at all? I’m laughing at those statements in this thread…. I mean, is it factual, or is this some TikTot nonsense?

Ford needs changes internally and the slate needs to be wiped clean…. I mean seriously, how many iterations of a pickup truck, in all different names/sizes/configurations is needed by and under ONE Brand? It’s laughable and their recalls, excessive warranty repairs (in the billions) and ignorance of what the consumer wants is only diluting them quicker while other Vehicle Manufacturers are outpacing them and thinking outside the box.

Opinions vary. And, I’m not sure if you were stating that the Mach E utilizes VW’s MEB EV platform but it doesn’t. That is used by the European Explorer EV. The VW id4 drives like a boring EV, the Mach E does not. It’s not close.

 

[Vlad Soare]

I've never understood why wagons aren't more popular now, since most SUVs are just tall wagons and sell like hotcakes.

Because what sells like hotcakes is precisely the height.
Most people who want an SUV want it because sitting higher up allows them to see the road better and gives them a feeling of safety. That's especially true for women. Ask any woman to choose between two cars. I guarantee you that nine out of ten will pick the taller one.

And then they’ll say if you want a Mustang coupe to exist in 5 years you will all STFU and let the adults work.

Well, maybe if those adults didn't spend an inordinate amount of money on hideous Kitchenaids that sell at a loss (if at all), they could afford keeping the Mustang alive without having to resort to prostitution.

Mondeos and Focuses were selling very well in Europe, until Ford decided to axe them and give us some repulsive pieces of trash instead, which are now gathering dust in showrooms. The sales rep from my local Ford dealership tells me he can barely sell one from time to time, whereas orders for Focuses, Mondeos or Fiestas used to pile up on his desk.
They tried to take a leaf out of Apple's book and to treat us like Apple does, but they forgot one crucial detail - they aren't Apple. Now they must milk the only name that still has a bit of meaning left in their lineup, in order to recoup the losses caused by their own arrogance.

So maybe those 'adults' aren't really all that smart.

Opinions vary.

What's the idea? I see an exquisitely beautiful car next to a disgusting turd.. Am I supposed to see something else?

 

[HoldenSSVandGT350]

Because what sells like hotcakes is precisely the height.
Most people who want an SUV want it because sitting higher up allows them to see the road better and gives them a feeling of safety. That's especially true for women. Ask any woman to choose between two cars. I guarantee you that nine out of ten will pick the taller one.


Well, maybe if those adults didn't spend an inordinate amount of money on hideous Kitchenaids that sell at a loss (if at all), they could afford keeping the Mustang alive without having to resort to prostitution.

Mondeos and Focuses were selling very well in Europe, until Ford decided to axe them and give us some repulsive pieces of trash instead, which are now gathering dust in showrooms. The sales rep from my local Ford dealership tells me he can barely sell one from time to time, whereas orders for Focuses, Mondeos or Fiestas used to pile up on his desk.
They tried to take a leaf out of Apple's book and to treat us like Apple does, but they forgot one crucial detail - they aren't Apple. Now they must milk the only name that still has a bit of meaning left in their lineup, in order to recoup the losses caused by their own arrogance.

So maybe those 'adults' aren't really all that smart.


What's the idea? I see an exquisitely beautiful car next to a disgusting turd.. Am I supposed to see something else?

Mate, it’s gonna be ok. The Mach 4 will be named as such, and it will sell in quantities that will justify the decision to produce it. Current market analysis in the U.S. is suggesting a bit of SUV-only hangover and desire for affordable sedans. Hence, GM’s decision to reintroduce Camaro as a 4 door and 2 door and to give Buick a sedan as well.

Or, perhaps Ford should stupidly let GM snag all that market share because a vocal, angry bunch of Mustang old timers wants to stop the march of progress. That sounds suboptimal to me.

And regarding your turd comment on the Mach E, you do you my man. All I can say is I’ve been surprised over the last 5 years at how many people have approached us about it to say how great it looks and to inquire about cost, range, power, space, tech etc. Some middle age but many much younger. Anecdotal, sure, but exactly what Ford wanted.

 

[MAGS1]

Where’s the data coming from that is saying that “20 somethings” want a 4-door Mustang, or that they want a Mustang at all? I’m laughing at those statements in this thread…. I mean, is it factual, or is this some TikTot nonsense?

People I talk to at my kids’ schools. People I talk to at car shows. Some drive Chargers, others drive more boring sedans like Camry’s, Corolla’s, etc. I was one myself when my kids were in car seats. I drove a Malibu and a Sonata because I needed the room in the back seat. They would all love to be driving sport coupes instead but it’s just too big of a pain in the ass with younger kids.

So, there’s my data. Actual people, not some TikTok bullshit (don’t even have an account).

My chart came from CJ Pony Parts, it was well laid out so I used it. Their data came from Ford data, or so they say.

Im not saying this Mach4 will make sales exceed S550 (which by they way weren’t all that magical when looking at prior generations) but it should boost sales enough that it will allow the 2 door fastback to continue to live on.

Again, any car manufacturer listening to the old heads and not looking forward is going to suffer in the long term. Yeah, I prefer buttons and dials too, but when all the competition is screens, you can’t afford to get left behind.

As I’ve said numerous times now, our little enthusiasts group here is just that: little. We’re the minority. Why on earth would any business listen to an ever shrinking minority? That’s a recipe for failure. You’re viewing it from the enthusiast lens. Ford had to view it from a business lens. Mustang resonates with car people and non-car people. Other names simply do not

 

[robvas]

GM couldn't sell a 2 door Camaro what makes you think they will sell a 4 door? Maybe it will sell as terribly as the Chevy SS!

 

[MAGS1]

If anyone here has seen the movie Moneyball, there’s a great line when Billy Beane is talking to his head scout because the scout doesn’t like the “new school” approach of analytics. He’s old school, the “eye test” so to speak. Billy flat out tells him his justification for the new approach, “adapt or die”. That’s how businesses have to think. As Holden mentioned, there’s competition coming into the space from right down the road at GM. Everyone here was bitching not too long ago that Ford is sitting on their hands because the Mustang competition left. Now, Ford is adapting because here comes competition and y’all are bitching.

 

[robvas]

According to most Mustang owners, the Charger and Camaro were never competition...

 

[MAGS1]

What?? Camaro absolutely was a competitor. As was the Challenger. Charger probably not due to it having 4 doors. Who are these “most here” saying Camaro wasn’t a competitor? Corvette is a different story…

 

[robvas]

The last performance V8 four door that sold well from GM or Ford was the 1994-1996 Impala SS with 69,758 over 3 years

Let's look at some others:

Pontiac G8: 28,000 over 2 years. Includes base model V6

Chevrolet SS: 12,860 over 4 years

Mercury Marauder: 11,052 over 2 years

CTS-V: 491-3,224 per year. Usually 1,500 or less. ATS-V was even worse

The market always sounds like it's there. People say they want one. But nobody ever ends up buying these things.

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