Dark Horse SC, who's adding one, who's replacing with one, what will it do to GT500 values?

[MAGS1]

I only buy that to a degree.

and with the s650 being basically the old car massaged enough to keep selling, there’s no excuse for the cars to cost what they do. And with the SC ESPECIALLY for the reasons stated above. They’ve saved money hand over fist on this car. Time for Ford to get real and get back to bang for the buck. This isn’t a new gt500 and doesn’t have any licensing fees tacked on. Most of the R&D on this was paid for a loooong time ago.

Just because they’re using the same chassis, drivetrain, etc. doesn’t mean they had a shitload of them laying around from 2020 to use in 2026. Material and labor costs are up significantly since 2020, the suppliers and Ford themselves aren’t eating that cost increase. It costs more to manufacture those same products today, as Tob said pricing will reflect that. And there is absolutely some R&D cost with the different body panels, grilles, etc. and their effects on airflow, cooling and so on. The car isn’t a carbon copy of the S550 GT500, so there is definitely some R&D that went into the DHSC. The R&D that was likely a carryover is the engine and transmission and the shifting strategies. I’d be surprised if much more carried over. I believe even the Magride programming changed from S550

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[SheepDog]

I only buy that to a degree.

and with the s650 being basically the old car massaged enough to keep selling, there’s no excuse for the cars to cost what they do. And with the SC ESPECIALLY for the reasons stated above. They’ve saved money hand over fist on this car. Time for Ford to get real and get back to bang for the buck. This isn’t a new gt500 and doesn’t have any licensing fees tacked on. Most of the R&D on this was paid for a loooong time ago.

Part of the pricing structure will also include a "No competition" fee. If you want a top tier Muscle car, you can buy a Ford or a Ford. They know they can jack up the prices, because no one else makes anything comparable. I'd wager you are looking at nearly $150k with a fully optioned version. Hell, a nice example of a low mileage GT500 CFTP costs nearly that right now.

https://www.classic.com/veh/2022-ford-shelby-mustang-gt500-carbon-fiber-track-nwJVM24
https://www.classic.com/veh/2022-ford-shelby-mustang-gt500-heritage-edition-ca-WkdrdRp

 

[btown93]

1. Ford has saved tons of money by reusing the s550 for this generation

2. they’re saving money again on this car by reusing the gt500 drivetrain.

3. Then they’re saving money yet again by not collaborating with Shelby and not paying licensing fees.

so this is by all means the DISCOUNT GT500 replacement.

it really should be priced accordingly.

Not sure if you follow raptor R prices, but one could follow a similar logic.... Ford, however essentially charges you the $30k for the predator engine on top of the cost of a V6 raptor. Why wouldn't they do it here?

 

[Strokerswild]

Based on what we know of regular Dark Horse HP pricing, I'd be shocked beyond belief if the base SC came in under $100K. I think it'll be a fair amount more.

 

[9secondko]

Just because they’re using the same chassis, drivetrain, etc. doesn’t mean they had a shitload of them laying around from 2020 to use in 2026. Material and labor costs are up significantly since 2020, the suppliers and Ford themselves aren’t eating that cost increase. It costs more to manufacture those same products today, as Tob said pricing will reflect that. And there is absolutely some R&D cost with the different body panels, grilles, etc. and their effects on airflow, cooling and so on. The car isn’t a carbon copy of the S550 GT500, so there is definitely some R&D that went into the DHSC. The R&D that was likely a carryover is the engine and transmission and the shifting strategies. I’d be surprised if much more carried over. I believe even the Magride programming changed from S550

Not the point. The R&D, castings, production knowledge and setup, material sourcing, etc. is already locked and loaded. They saved a ton doing that. There no way around it.

 

[9secondko]

Not sure if you follow raptor R prices, but one could follow a similar logic.... Ford, however essentially charges you the $30k for the predator engine on top of the cost of a V6 raptor. Why wouldn't they do it here?

no doubt. My point is it’s nonsensical and people should be aware of what’s going on. It’s a rip.

 

[Stage_3]

To be fair, costs have gone up across the board, substantially since '22. I can't speak to the margins Ford has to work with but this car will absolutely reflect just that.

I agree fully. R&D and materials all have gone up in cost.
Gas guzzler tax will be up there as well.

 

[9secondko]

Part of the pricing structure will also include a "No competition" fee. If you want a top tier Muscle car, you can buy a Ford or a Ford. They know they can jack up the prices, because no one else makes anything comparable. I'd wager you are looking at nearly $150k with a fully optioned version. Hell, a nice example of a low mileage GT500 CFTP costs nearly that right now.

https://www.classic.com/veh/2022-ford-shelby-mustang-gt500-carbon-fiber-track-nwJVM24
https://www.classic.com/veh/2022-ford-shelby-mustang-gt500-heritage-edition-ca-WkdrdRp

That’s the point. Ford hasn’t done anything with this car to command that kind of price cut anything, all sc models shouldn’t even be more expensive than the 2023 model, since the licensing fee is gone snd that would soak up additional costs in building this car.

Ford is charging all-new car money for old car tech. They’re gouging because people have shown themselves willing to overpay. They won’t stop until people stop letting themselves get suckered. The bronco raptor is an example of this. They were charging right around 100k to get one. People started balking. Next thing you know, prices dropped considerably.

that kind of money for old bones and an old drivetrain in a car with no heritage to connect it to? I guess we’ll see how it goes. People are starved for this kind of car right now, so maybe it won’t matter. Pent-up demand may overwrite common sense. But then again, that’s what the enthusiast market is all about.

I imagine the profit margins on the sc will be quite large per vehicle sold.

prices haven’t been announced. Hopefully Ford announces a nice common sense surprise vs gouge city.

 

[SheepDog]

That’s the point. Ford hasn’t done anything with this car to command that kind of price cut anything, all sc models shouldn’t even be more expensive than the 2023 model, since the licensing fee is gone snd that would soak up additional costs in building this car.

Ford is charging all-new car money for old car tech. They’re gouging because people have shown themselves willing to overpay. They won’t stop until people stop letting themselves get suckered. The bronco raptor is an example of this. They were charging right around 100k to get one. People started balking. Next thing you know, prices dropped considerably.

that kind of money for old bones and an old drivetrain in a car with no heritage to connect it to? I guess we’ll see how it goes. People are starved for this kind of car right now, so maybe it won’t matter. Pent-up demand may overwrite common sense. But then again, that’s what the enthusiast market is all about.

I imagine the profit margins on the sc will be quite large per vehicle sold.

prices haven’t been announced. Hopefully Ford announces a nice common sense surprise vs gouge city.

The fact that they build it at all, is something. They might sell a few thousand of these in total, so monetary gain is likely of little concern. They only do it for enthusiasts, and to show off. They sell an F150 every 90 seconds to keep the shareholders happy.

Yes, a lot of this car is a carry over from the GT500.

The profit margin is always the highest, on the top trim of any vehicle. Is the Raptor R really worth 3x what a base XL 4x4 F150 is? not even close

If you want value, buy the base trim. I see a Bronco Raptor every day. I see a GT500 a few times a year.

You are right, people are starving for this type of car, and Ford knows it. They know that they do not have to sink the considerable resources and development time into something completely new, because no one else makes anything even close.

 

[Inthehighdesert]

Do you work in any type of business that has production? This simply is not reality. I’m a gc and build custom specs. Lumber is down currently, but roofing material, drywall, insulation, concrete, g&l, workmans comp, etc. , virtually everything else is up. It’s kind of like saying because I’ll build two of the same house with the same plans(r and d) the house will be x cheaper. It’s pennies on a dollar. Has zero bearing to the big picture.

Not the point. The R&D, castings, production knowledge and setup, material sourcing, etc. is already locked and loaded. They saved a ton doing that. There no way around it.

 

[MAGS1]

Not the point. The R&D, castings, production knowledge and setup, material sourcing, etc. is already locked and loaded. They saved a ton doing that. There no way around it.

To suggest all the R&D was done with S550 GT500 is laughable. It’s likely the DHSC will make more power than the GT500. How much more? TBD but that requires the engine tune to change which means testing that mated to the transmission for adjusting shifting strategies. Then they have to put it in test cars to test how it all works with the suspension, aero, cooling, etc. What’s all that called? R&D. I’m sure the motor and transmission were developed to be able to handle higher HP and torque, so probably not much to test there so I’ll give you that. But to insuate that Ford didn’t need to spend any R&D time/money on the motor and trans just because it was in the GT500 previously is pretty silly.

Material sourcing may have changed, particularly with the tariff noise (and with actual tariffs in place). The supplier world can be pretty volatile, particularly in uncertain economic times. Don’t assume anything as far as that being the same.

 

[Epiphany]

Just one aspect, labor. UAW production top rates have gone from $32 hr in 2022 to $40 hr in 2026. Skilled trades at the plants has gone from $36 to $47. Those are substantial increases.

 

[9secondko]

The fact that they build it at all, is something. They might sell a few thousand of these in total, so monetary gain is likely of little concern. They only do it for enthusiasts, and to show off. They sell an F150 every 90 seconds to keep the shareholders happy.

Yes, a lot of this car is a carry over from the GT500.

The profit margin is always the highest, on the top trim of any vehicle. Is the Raptor R really worth 3x what a base XL 4x4 F150 is? not even close

If you want value, buy the base trim. I see a Bronco Raptor every day. I see a GT500 a few times a year.

You are right, people are starving for this type of car, and Ford knows it. They know that they do not have to sink the considerable resources and development time into something completely new, because no one else makes anything even close.

ive said before that it made sense for Ford to stretch the old car in order to navigate uncertain times with the EV profitability fiasco, etc. but the problem comes when they price the old thing as if it’s all new heck even of it were all new, currrnt pricing is not equitable to tproduct itself.

So ford gets some credit for not just going full ret*rd and throwing away the only iconic vehicle in tje lineup.

however, it was the only responsible choice. Dodge is getting back into the game and it sounds like GM will soon as well. Both compsnies are investing in new v8 engines. Both misread the market and are now course-correcting.

So I dont want to hear “we’re lucky they’re building it at all” when GM is not only “still building” the corvette, but they’ve done fine and reinvented the entire thing from tje ground up and now you can buy a 1000+ horsepower monster mass produced straight from the factory. You can anlso get ann electric hybrid. And they’ve got both cross plane and flat plane crank versions. All that for a car that is more niche than the mustang. Ford can’t even touch it with the Gtd, which should really be the new gt500 and be priced accordingly).

Current mustang pricing is wack. Hopefully it settles back down with the sc since it’s basically a 6 year old car with some upgrades necessary to sell it in 2026.

 

[WItoTX]

To suggest all the R&D was done with S550 GT500 is laughable. It’s likely the DHSC will make more power than the GT500. How much more? TBD but that requires the engine tune to change which means testing that mated to the transmission for adjusting shifting strategies. Then they have to put it in test cars to test how it all works with the suspension, aero, cooling, etc. What’s all that called? R&D. I’m sure the motor and transmission were developed to be able to handle higher HP and torque, so probably not much to test there so I’ll give you that. But to insuate that Ford didn’t need to spend any R&D time/money on the motor and trans just because it was in the GT500 previously is pretty silly.

Material sourcing may have changed, particularly with the tariff noise (and with actual tariffs in place). The supplier world can be pretty volatile, particularly in uncertain economic times. Don’t assume anything as far as that being the same.

Aluminum suspension bits, potentially aluminum subframes, new CF wheels, aero design, brake by wire, bigger brakes/tune, and R&D on the ~400 lbs they've added to the car based on the DH production numbers. But yeah, no, R&D basically done with the S550...

And that's just what they have told us about. Wait until it gets into some track rats hands, we're going to find out a lot more subtle changes then.

 

[JT1]

It's very hard to argue that Ford is doing as good a job with the Mustang as GM is with the Vette. Who wouldn't love an 8 second Mustang that's just a capable on a road course?

Mustang was always affordable performance. The S550 definitely raised the bar to M3 type road course capability, but the price went up with it. Which was Ok with me because that's what I wanted and I was willing to pay for it. The S650 seems to me more of a financial bump than a performace bump, although admittedly we haven't seen what the latest S650 DHSC can do, or what it costs to do it.

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