Cobb got nailed by the EPA

[MD18EcoStang]

​ Copy of the email here. "Identified Subject Products" includes: Ford Accessport V3 (Mustang EcoBoost) As many of you may know, COBB Tuning entered into a settlement agreement (called a Consent Decree or CD) with the US EPA concerning certain products that the US EPA identified as a Subject Product. As part of this agreement, COBB Tuning is required to notify all Consumers and Authorized Dealers who purchased or may have sold a Subject Product after January 1, 2015, through the date that the product ceased to be considered a Subject Product by the EPA. Our records show that you purchased or may have sold one or more Subject Product during this time period. We are therefore sending you the following notification as required by our settlement agreement with the US EPA. ​ SUBJECT: NOTICE OF CONSENT DECREE IN UNITED STATES v. COBB TUNING PRODUCTS, LLC Dear COBB Customer or Authorized Dealer, We are writing to make you aware of important changes in the type of products sold by COBB Tuning Products, LLC (“COBB Tuning”). As you may already know, COBB Tuning has entered into a civil judicial settlement with the federal government regarding the manufacture and sale of certain COBB Tuning exhaust and electronic tuning products, which are listed in the hyperlinked table (the “Identified Subject Products”). Pursuant to the terms of this settlement, we are sending you this notice because, according to our records, you purchased or may have sold one or more of these Identified Subject Products (a) after January 1, 2015, and (b) before the date listed in column titled “Date Product Ceased Being a Subject Product.” The United States Environmental Protection Agency (“EPA”) has alleged that the Identified Subject Products (at least until the date identified in the column titled “Date Product Ceased Being a Subject Product”) violate the Clean Air Act’s prohibition against motor vehicle parts or components that have a principal effect of bypassing, defeating, or rendering inoperative any emissions control system or element of design on a vehicle. See 42 U.S.C. § 7522(a)(3). Emissions control systems include oxygen sensors, three-way catalytic converters, and onboard diagnostic systems. Motor vehicle emissions controls are important for protection of public health and the environment. In this settlement, COBB Tuning has agreed, among other things, that: COBB Tuning will not manufacture, sell, or install Subject Products because the EPA has alleged that these products have a principal effect of bypassing, defeating, or rendering inoperative any emissions control system or element of design on a vehicle (see 42 U.S.C. §7522(a)(3)); COBB Tuning will no longer provide technical support (including user manuals, telephone support, online/chat support, and YouTube videos) for Subject Products; and COBB Tuning will no longer provide warranty or service coverage for the Subject Products. Going forward, the settlement with the EPA specifically allows for COBB Tuning to continue to sell products covered by Executive Orders issued by the California Air Resources Board (“CARB”) or products for which a complete application has been submitted to CARB seeking an Executive Order. COBB Tuning sells various CARB-certified products and more information concerning these CARB-certified products are available on COBB Tuning’s website. Sincerely, Tadd Crayton Vice President, Chief Sales and Marketing Officer

IANAL, but this really doesn't seem to mean much, if anything, for the Mustang Ecoboost AP, since it "Ceased Being a Subject Product" on 2/24/2021. In other words, it's been "fixed." Cobb just doesn't support the tunes (and probably the firmware) it came with (prior to that date) any longer. The same product (AP) is still sold with compliant tunes, with the exception of the stage 3 tune (the one made for use with the downpipe they no longer sell as part of the consent decree).

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[Buldawg76]

IANAL, but this really doesn't seem to mean much, if anything, for the Mustang Ecoboost AP, since it "Ceased Being a Subject Product" on 2/24/2021. In other words, it's been "fixed." Cobb just doesn't support the tunes (and probably the firmware) it came with (prior to that date) any longer. The same product (AP) is still sold with compliant tunes, with the exception of the stage 3 tune (the one made for use with the downpipe they no longer sell as part of the consent decree).

So basically, if you have an AP sold before 2/24/21 in order for it to be supported by Cobb you must update the firmware for the AP manager and in the AP itself, but it does not update any stage 3 tunes to the latest versions.

Still a CARB EO should have no legal status or bearing on any state but Commiefornia. The other 49 states are not subject to its rules.

BD

 

[MAGS1]

So basically, if you have an AP sold before 2/24/21 in order for it to be supported by Cobb you must update the firmware for the AP manager and in the AP itself, but it does not update any stage 3 tunes to the latest versions.

Still a CARB EO should have no legal status or bearing on any state but Commiefornia. The other 49 states are not subject to its rules.

BD

Most companies don’t want to manufacture the same product with two different specs (CARB and non-CARB). So, unless they want to exclude a substantially large buyer pool (CA), they just develop and manufacture to meet those regulations. Roush did do that for the 2022-2023 blowers for the GT for a while. They sold them as non-CARB compliant (even though they were, they just hadn’t gotten the certification) but I believe they are now sold as CARB compliant having gotten the certification.

Also note that there are several states that have or are trying to adopt CARB regulations (IL where I’m at is one that has proposed it), so it’s more than 1 state driving it. CA just happens to be the largest and the one that set the standard. Right or wrong, that’s the way it goes .

 

[Buldawg76]

Most companies don’t want to manufacture the same product with two different specs (CARB and non-CARB). So, unless they want to exclude a substantially large buyer pool (CA), they just develop and manufacture to meet those regulations. Roush did do that for the 2022-2023 blowers for the GT for a while. They sold them as non-CARB compliant (even though they were, they just hadn’t gotten the certification) but I believe they are now sold as CARB compliant having gotten the certification.

Also note that there are several states that have or are trying to adopt CARB regulations (IL where I’m at is one that has proposed it), so it’s more than 1 state driving it. CA just happens to be the largest and the one that set the standard. Right or wrong, that’s the way it goes .

I do understand all of that but do not agree with any in it in terms of CARB being forced on the 49 states. It's all just a money/power grab by greedy officials that have no concern/cares for who elected them and never will.

We the people can change it if we truly want it to change. The problem is too many could care less if their freedoms are slowly stripped away over time just as they have been for the last 100+ years.

BD.

 

[MAGS1]

I do understand all of that but do not agree with any in it in terms of CARB being forced on the 49 states. It's all just a money/power grab by greedy officials that have no concern/cares for who elected them and never will.

We the people can change it if we truly want it to change. The problem is too many could care less if their freedoms are slowly stripped away over time just as they have been for the last 100+ years.

BD.

Don’t disagree with a lot of what you said, but I do think some of the regulations over time have made the air we breathe cleaner, so I’m good with that. Do we need to keep taking it to extreme where certain products are being forced on us (such as EV’s) that aren’t actually any cleaner when you look at everything in totality? No, I don’t believe in that at all.

I do believe we have a responsibility to take care of the places in which we live, so some (key word: some) regulation is needed to accomplish that. But like everything else, there’s a push to keep going further even if it’s not really accomplishing anything more beneficial. It becomes a battle of ideologies instead of finding a well balanced middle ground.

Not to go too far on a tangent but I have to shake my head at people that despise the power agencies like the EPA have but yet cheer on DOGE when it is in fact the same structure as the EPA. Unelected group of people, not vetted and confirmed by Congress yet somehow think they have power to revoke things already approved by Congress (such as federal fundings). News flash, they don’t and neither does the executive branch for that matter. If they don’t like what they see, go to Congress to get it amended. I’m sure there are things in those funding bills that can get trimmed back because they’re not being used or not being used properly. Congress has the power of the purse (explicitly laid out in the constitution) not the President and certainly not some made up “department” run by an ultra wealthy egomaniac that has a lot of conflicts of interest. Can’t unilaterally shut it off, just like the EPA shouldn’t be able to unilaterally throw regulations around without going through Congress to pass laws about it. 3 co-equal branches of government is what the constitution sets forth. All parties (yes both sides deserve blame and criticism) and governmental departments need to follow it. To me, that’s how you shrink the regulatory power of these unelected agencies. Congress needs to step up and say hey, you can make regulatory proposals but they have to come through us, you can’t enact them on your own. Congress will draft laws for the President to sign off on when and where appropriate. I think you’d be surprised just how much you can shrink some of these agencies just by getting back to the constitutional basics.

Ok, off my stepstool now.

 

[Dsand300]

The new Trump EPA administartion may be less aggressive with enforcement regarding vehicle engine tuning.

 

[ihasnostang]

interesting timing
cobb rep

 

[MAGS1]

The new Trump EPA administartion may be less aggressive with enforcement regarding vehicle engine tuning.

Quite possible. Doesn’t seem to be a focus at the moment though. I thought it would be a focus until Elon got in his pocket. Now I’m not sure because Elon has business incentives for more EPA crackdowns that would steer people to EV. Time will tell on that one

 

[wingnutt]

Quite possible. Doesn’t seem to be a focus at the moment though. I thought it would be a focus until Elon got in his pocket. Now I’m not sure because Elon has business incentives for more EPA crackdowns that would steer people to EV. Time will tell on that one

nah…looks to me like they are too busy with all the other three letter agencies right now 🫠

 

[Buldawg76]

Don’t disagree with a lot of what you said, but I do think some of the regulations over time have made the air we breathe cleaner, so I’m good with that. Do we need to keep taking it to extreme where certain products are being forced on us (such as EV’s) that aren’t actually any cleaner when you look at everything in totality? No, I don’t believe in that at all.

I do believe we have a responsibility to take care of the places in which we live, so some (key word: some) regulation is needed to accomplish that. But like everything else, there’s a push to keep going further even if it’s not really accomplishing anything more beneficial. It becomes a battle of ideologies instead of finding a well balanced middle ground.

Not to go too far on a tangent but I have to shake my head at people that despise the power agencies like the EPA have but yet cheer on DOGE when it is in fact the same structure as the EPA. Unelected group of people, not vetted and confirmed by Congress yet somehow think they have power to revoke things already approved by Congress (such as federal fundings). News flash, they don’t and neither does the executive branch for that matter. If they don’t like what they see, go to Congress to get it amended. I’m sure there are things in those funding bills that can get trimmed back because they’re not being used or not being used properly. Congress has the power of the purse (explicitly laid out in the constitution) not the President and certainly not some made up “department” run by an ultra wealthy egomaniac that has a lot of conflicts of interest. Can’t unilaterally shut it off, just like the EPA shouldn’t be able to unilaterally throw regulations around without going through Congress to pass laws about it. 3 co-equal branches of government is what the constitution sets forth. All parties (yes both sides deserve blame and criticism) and governmental departments need to follow it. To me, that’s how you shrink the regulatory power of these unelected agencies. Congress needs to step up and say hey, you can make regulatory proposals but they have to come through us, you can’t enact them on your own. Congress will draft laws for the President to sign off on when and where appropriate. I think you’d be surprised just how much you can shrink some of these agencies just by getting back to the constitutional basics.

Ok, off my stepstool now.

Very well stated indeed and if it actually worked that way, we would not even be having these conversations but sadly it has not for far too many years.

Our founding fathers also never meant for the members of the 3 branches to be engaged in governing fulltime either but that is what we have with them now. We need term limits for all and have needed that for quite some time. They are getting rich on the backs of the people and in office well past their prime.

Like I said its We The People that are the ones that can and must make the change if we ever expect anything different from OUR govt.

BD

 

[MAGS1]

Very well stated indeed and if it actually worked that way, we would not even be having these conversations but sadly it has not for far too many years.

Our founding fathers also never meant for the members of the 3 branches to be engaged in governing fulltime either but that is what we have with them now. We need term limits for all and have needed that for quite some time. They are getting rich on the backs of the people and in office well past their prime.

Like I said its We The People that are the ones that can and must make the change if we ever expect anything different from OUR govt.

BD

100% agree with you. I don’t mind lifetime appointments for the Supreme Court and other high ranking federal judges so that they span multiple administrations and (hopefully) aren’t swayed by one administration or party, but even then, maybe limit them to say 20-25 years or age XX, whichever comes first.

Sadly, our elected officials have become too dependent on the mega-rich (both parties are more than guilty) and are more concerned with keeping their jobs than doing their jobs (line from the movie American President starring Michael Douglas, great movie and very appropriate line). Term limits would be a great idea and I’m all for limiting monetary influence as well. Not sure how exactly to do that (the money part) because it would likely get challenged in court.

Could have a multi-beer/bourbon convo on all that stuff but that’s probably best had outside this forum

 

[K4fxd]

Unelected group of people, not vetted and confirmed by Congress yet somehow think they have power to revoke things already approved by Congress (such as federal fundings).

These agencies are executive branch and like it or not Trump is the head of that branch. If he wants to hire people to audit his departments, congress and the courts have no say.

 

[MAGS1]

These agencies are executive branch and like it or not Trump is the head of that branch. If he wants to hire people to audit his departments, congress and the courts have no say.

Several holes in that argument but this is not place for it so I’ll refrain from further comment.

 

[sk47]

I do believe we have a responsibility to take care of the places in which we live, so some (key word: some) regulation is needed to accomplish that. But like everything else, there’s a push to keep going further even if it’s not really accomplishing anything more beneficial. It becomes a battle of ideologies instead of finding a well balanced middle ground.

have to shake my head at people that despise the power agencies like the EPA have but yet cheer on DOGE when it is in fact the same structure as the EPA. Unelected group of people, not vetted and confirmed by Congress yet somehow think they have power to revoke things already approved by Congress (such as federal fundings). News flash, they don’t and neither does the executive branch for that matter.

Congress has the power of the purse (explicitly laid out in the constitution) not the President and certainly not some made up “department” run by an ultra wealthy egomaniac that has a lot of conflicts of interest. Can’t unilaterally shut it off, just like the EPA shouldn’t be able to unilaterally throw regulations around without going through Congress to pass laws about it

Hello; Have to admit some of your comments ring true. Then some go awry. We do as a society need to take care of the place in which we live. Congress does have the power of the purse. There are ideologies in charge of powerful agencies such as the EPA, so a suitable middle ground does not exist.

DOGE may or may not survive in terms of being a lasting influence. There are powerful entities hard at work trying to stop DOGE. I do think you are mistaken about the power of DOGE. My take is DOGE is working directly under the direction of the President. The EPA and other similar agencies have over time assumed authorities well beyond what initial mandates they may have been granted.

A point being the executive branch does have the mandate to enforce laws enacted by the congress. Such is one of the delineated functions if I recall correctly. Congress passes the laws. The courts determine if the laws as written are constitutional. The executive enforces the laws. A much too simplistic way to put it I will admit. There are nuances.

Here is a point I hope to get across. I watched THE FIVE yesterday. Of the five talking heads on the show, one is always of a liberal bent. The topic was DOGE. The liberal talking head contended it is alright to clean up waste, fraud and abuse but it should only go forward. DOGE should not look back at what has already happened. He stated something like that. I heard something else.

What I heard was allow the waste, fraud & abuse that is currently happening and recently happened to finish happening & without prosecution. Only start acting on such things sometime in the future. An analogy or two. Say someone is molesting a child or a woman. allow them to finish and only go after them if they do it again in the future. May not be what the talking head intended but such was my take.

That waste, fraud and abuse has been going on has not been a secret. I and most others get wind of such from time to time. Might make the news from time to time. Then lots of verbal angst for a few days. "We will study this" and "report back to you" is the more common outcome and little to nothing gets changed. The culprits are rarely, if ever, brought to any form of justice. Some continue in their positions even after their wrong actions are well known. Covid 19 opened many eyes that are not yet lulled back closed. DOGE under the current President are actually acting in real time. Love that.

I do not know how the DOGE experiment will play out. The forces aligned against it and the President are powerful and deeply seated. (deep state) May turn out to be short lived. A thing is a very large amount of hidden abuses & fraud will become known. Much is already become known. We ordinary folks have our eyes opened and are paying attention.

Pick a side. I want DOGE to continue. I want to both know what has happened and also, I want those who are guilty to face consequences. Do you stand against DOGE?

 

[lo-fi]

Do you stand against DOGE?

Overly simplistic question, and yes I'm 100% pro DOGE. However, I'm keeping my eyes wide open and the moment DOGE turns to untruths, even if only exaggerations, I'm not having it. I've had my fill of all BS from anyone in power.

I always think of the Lord Acton quote when I see a small group accumulating power:

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority; still more when you superadd the tendency of the certainty of corruption by authority

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