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[trippleyelo]

OK, this is not a datalog, not even a pull, it's simply a snapshot of my Accessport after some spirited driving. If the numbers are not too far off, the power is at 470 hp and the torque at about 560 Nm (~411 lb-ft) to the crank. This is exactly where I would expect my car to be in terms of power and Tq, based on my mods and tuning.

Is the math right HP(rpm*torque) devided 5252

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[MakStang]

Not in the above snapshot, because max Tq and max hp are obtained at different rpms.

 

[MakStang]

Hey guys, It's cool you are keeping this alive,
Sometimes the crap that I see on the forum makes me walk away from it for long stretches.

So I got a chance to speak to a PCM calibrator at Bosch GmBH a few days ago. Because of the way the torque estimation works, removing restrictions in the intake and exhaust will actually report lower numbers.

In simple terms the sensors detect x amount of pressure at y temperature. There is a flow model programmed in the computer that tells it how much air that is and then calculates with RPM, Air fuel ratio, etc.

In our example we will use 10 psi at 5000 rpm with a 12-1 AFR (these numbers are just made up for this example) the ECU makes a relatively accurate reading of 200 ft/lbs with stock components.

When you remove restrictions you can flow more air at 7 psi than 10psi on stock equipment. A wheel dyno would show something like 220 ft/lbs. Unless the flow model is updated it would read lower, there is some correction built into the system but it is probably going to read 5-15% LOWER.

At the same 10 psi 5000 rpm, the sensors would show 220 ft/lbs, so you would see a gain, but the car would actually be outputting 240 ft/lbs.

The short version is that these sensors will under report significantly when a freer flowing down pipe and Intercooler is used and you can expect 10% more or better on a dyno. A cat back will not throw off the reading significantly and those gains would be solid.

The good news is that any changes that do not involve air flow (Like a tune) the increase from the baseline will be accurate so you can use it to measure gains.

Changing the turbo affects the flow model significantly enough to render it useless

Based on what [MENTION=16952]Glenn G[/MENTION] described in his post and assuming that better flow at the same psi (in my case a better, free flowing intercooler) results in less torque being reported by the ECU, I wonder if in reality my real hp and Tq are even higher.

[MENTION=16952]Glenn G[/MENTION] are you there?

 

[Manders Mustang]

Ran a 3rd pull last night to 6k rpm got 402.7 at 24PSI
Ran a 4th pull today to 6k rpm got 394.4 at 23.88PSI

I think if I get enough road to do a 3rd to redline from 3k into a 4th redline i'll hit peak boost and around 410.

For reference I hit 360 on the Dyno, so it's a rather large increase over the dynos figures.

I'd be interested to see a COBB S1 and a Stock car run on this and see what BHP figures they're pushing. This will allow us to see the 'increase' between the variations.

 

[Jonahbonah]

I didn't see est hp as one of the datalogging parameters on the AP, just torque.... any insight on this?

 

[MakStang]

Steve take a look at my post (#29) in this thread. I did 354 hp during a 3rd gear pull, on the stock intercooler and COBB Stage 1 map. It seems more or less where you would expect it to be.

Also, as I posted in mustang Europe, today I recorded an estimated 380 hp! I am certain that I would hit even higher if I had a couple of hundred meters ahead of me, as I didn’t have the chance to reach top rpm on 4th gear. Also, keep in mind that according to the information provided by [MENTION=16952]Glenn G[/MENTION] in post #33 in this thread, it seems that the numbers provided by the ECU and shown on the AP (Estimated Tq and Estimated hp) might even be underestimated, LOL!

 

[MakStang]

I didn't see est hp as one of the datalogging parameters on the AP, just torque.... any insight on this?

You will have to update your Accessport, then you will see it :cheers:

 

[Jonahbonah]

I thought I was on the latest update, but I could definitely be wrong. Thanks for letting me know! I'm glad they added in that parameter!

 

[MakStang]

Yeah and it seems to be accurate.

 

[Manders Mustang]

Steve take a look at my post (#29) in this thread. I did 354 hp during a 3rd gear pull, on the stock intercooler and COBB Stage 1 map. It seems more or less where you would expect it to be.

Also, as I posted in mustang Europe, today I recorded an estimated 380 hp! I am certain that I would hit even higher if I had a couple of hundred meters ahead of me, as I didn’t have the chance to reach top rpm on 4th gear. Also, keep in mind that according to the information provided by @Glenn G in post #33 in this thread, it seems that the numbers provided by the ECU and shown on the AP (Estimated Tq and Estimated hp) might even be underestimated, LOL!

I'd still like to see what a stock car runs. as such if a stock car with it ran 310, then we know we could take it as "law" if it didn't then you can work out how accurate it is. ;).

I don't think with an OTS map u should be seeing +44bhp over list, that's wildly off, maybe 20 or so at a push, but 40 is one hell of a push (The IC without tuning the power out, which the OTS S1 doesn't do, won't produce any horses loggable)

 

[MakStang]

So we need someone with a stock EB (stock IC) who can flash the stock tune (Stage 0) and who will report back estimated hp and Tq. Is anyone willing to do the above?
[MENTION=18708]p0werslave[/MENTION]?

 

[TimHixson]

So we need someone with a stock EB (stock IC) who can flash the stock tune (Stage 0) and who will report back estimated hp and Tq. Is anyone willing to do the above?
[MENTION=18708]p0werslave[/MENTION]?

I can do this, but not until about December 11th. I am out of town on a cruise til then.
My car is a 17 premium automatic with only the accessport and air filter kit.

I did a pull yesterday with the stage 1 93oct tune. It was about 60 degrees here in Cincinnati. I saw about 338 hp at 22.5lbs of boost. The charge temps got to 120ish. (I really need an intercooler)

Couple questions...
Should I be in sport or race mode? (does it matter?)
I am watching charge temps on my accessport. Is that the correct gauge?

Tim

 

[MakStang]

Great Tim.

When you are ready, flash Cobb Stage 0 map. Find an open road, put the shifter in S so that you can change gears using the paddles. Do a 3rd gear pull from 2500 rpm to redline, then change to 4th and go again to redline during the same pull. Take note of the Estimated hp and Estimated Tq shown on your Accessport.

However, as I also have a 2017 auto, may I suggest that you do another pull but this time in a different way? Switch to Sport+ or Track mode through the toggle. Then put the car to a stop and do a wot. All gears will change at high rpm, very close to redline. I hope that there will be enough time for the car to switch to 4th gear and that it will reach the redline while on 4th. Again take note of the Estimated hp and Tq on your Accessport.

Allow the car to cool down between these two pulls to avoid heat soak.

We simply need these values in order to set a baseline for all these measurements. If you want come join our Mustang Europe group on Facebook, where we have an open discussion for this little project.

Let me or [MENTION=20131]Manders Mustang[/MENTION] (Steve) if you have any questions. Also, to answer your question, yes, Charge Air Temperature is what you need in order to monitor the temperature of the air leaving the intercooler and going to the cylinders.

 

[trippleyelo]

Great Tim.

When you are ready, flash Cobb Stage 0 map. Find an open road, put the shifter in S so that you can change gears using the paddles. Do a 3rd gear pull from 2500 rpm to redline, then change to 4th and go again to redline during the same pull. Take note of the Estimated hp and Estimated Tq shown on your Accessport.

However, as I also have a 2017 auto, may I suggest that you do another pull but this time in a different way? Switch to Sport+ or Track mode through the toggle. Then put the car to a stop and do a wot. All gears will change at high rpm, very close to redline. I hope that there will be enough time for the car to switch to 4th gear and that it will reach the redline while on 4th. Again take note of the Estimated hp and Tq on your Accessport.

Allow the car to cool down between these two pulls to avoid heat soak.

We simply need these values in order to set a baseline for all these measurements. If you want come join our Mustang Europe group on Facebook, where we have an open discussion for this little project.

What gas type 93 or 92 or 87 we have different gas types on AP..

Just wondering..

 

[MakStang]

I use 100 Ron gas, which I suppose is 93 in the US. Therefore I would suggest that the above should be done using 93 oct gas, so that we all use more or less the same type of fuel.

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