V8 potential problems coming? [ADMIN WARNING: *** NO POLITICS ***]

[KingKona]

My personal belief is that man-made climate change is real, ask anyone that lives in the Arctic, Greenland, any island nation that is located close to sea level....

Please use some logic;

ALL countries that aren't land-locked have areas close to the sea. So basically every country on the planet. Being an island has nothing to do with it.

Show one area that has suffered any sort of issue from "climate change", which used to be called "Global Warming" back in the 1970s. The name was changed because none of the dire end-of-the-world predictions have come true.

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[dfanucci]

Sometimes getting into these EV discussions is absolutely pointless. EV and climate change folks are so damn engrained into the thoughts of the world collapsing that they don't look past the end of their noses.

Fact: The United States electrical grid cannot handle a 100% EV environment. Hell, just read the headlines in California over the last two days. You cannot sugar coat what is being said. You cannot micro manage your "charge times" or "charge amounts" to bury the fact that 100% EV is simply a pipe dream being pushed by those that hump granola bars.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with EV as an *alternative* but not a full-blown direction. Those that think that EV's are going to be "cheaper" are absolutely blind. They may be right now in some situations, but there is absolutely no way, that governmental (tax uptake), nor private sector (profit folk), are going to be behind billions lost without making it up somewhere (electrical power is going to get real f*cking expensive in the coming years).

It's time to play nice on both sides of the isle folks. If we don't, the whole energy system is going to collapse and it is the tax payers and public that are going to suffer...

 

[Strokerswild]

And what they'd really like to do, is kill dealerships entirely and make all vehicle sales directly. Which is why production scarcity is continuing....they're trying to kill the dealerships.

EV or no, I relish the thought of ordering the vehicle of my choice online and not have to contend with a dealership....

 

[KingKona]

EV or no, I relish the thought of ordering the vehicle of my choice online and not have to contend with a dealership....

That would be a massive mistake. Prices for cars would sky-rocket.

Teslas have x3 the profit in comparison to Ford, Chrysler, GM, Honda, Toyota, etc.

Guess why?

Because it's direct sales, no dealerships. Dealerships create market competition, and that's very important. Single source sales is bad news.

 

[opengl]

That would be a massive mistake. Prices for cars would sky-rocket.

Teslas have x3 the profit in comparison to Ford, Chrysler, GM, Honda, Toyota, etc.

Guess why?

Because it's direct sales, no dealerships. Dealerships create market competition, and that's very important. Single source sales is bad news.

Dealer spotted lol.

Next tell me how a $50k dealer markup creates market competition.

 

[luca1290]

Because competition is always beneficial to the consumer.
Dealers compete for prices, customers and aftermarket service.
Also, they compete for giving you the best quotation when you trade in your old vehicle.
I don't know where you read that dealers have 50k of markup on a new vehicle. That statement is blatantly false.

 

[AvalancheSVT]

That would be a massive mistake. Prices for cars would sky-rocket.

Teslas have x3 the profit in comparison to Ford, Chrysler, GM, Honda, Toyota, etc.

Guess why?

Because it's direct sales, no dealerships. Dealerships create market competition, and that's very important. Single source sales is bad news.

with all the shit i've gone through to order a car and not have anyone screw with it i cannot wait for the day when i can order a car and a MFG can just drop it off at my house. i've only had one dealership experience where it was an absolute pleasure.

 

[dfanucci]

I don't know where you read that dealers have 50k of markup on a new vehicle. That statement is blatantly false.

You would be grossly incorrect. Lightnings are being marked-up 50k. Even Bronco's are being marked-up 30k...

 

[luca1290]

You would be grossly incorrect. Lightnings are being marked-up 50k. Even Bronco's are being marked-up 30k...

Then my fault. I can assure I've never seen something like this here in Europe. There is some markup but like this is crazy.

 

[sirben711]

I would worry less about the current motors, than I would all cars made during the Pandemic and just after.
The general malaise of the employees having to deal with the virus and starting and stopping their jobs. The current supply issues etc. Will create a less than ideal environment IMO.

Lot's to worry about now days. But that's up to Ford quality control.

I deal with all brands of new cars in my shop. I have seen all kinds of abnormal issues lately from Cadillac to BMW.

My 2021 has had nothing but problems. Quality has dropped a lot - at least compared to my old 2017. And time to get things looked at and carried out under the warranty are taking longer and longer.

As someone who works for a manufacture, start/stop production is a killer in quality and durability.

Anyway, I suspect the layoffs and everything happening at Ford is likely due to the economy and supply lines than anything else... at least right now. I dont see EV's being the next big thing. At least not in the near future.

 

[Ogopogo]

Dealer markup may be mostly (but not exclusively) limited to the USA. Here in Canada, inventory that I have looked at is listed at MSRP and new orders are at MSRP (as my GT was fall of 2021 and honored). That ADM will damage dealerships over time.

The only time I saw an ADM was when the new Vette came out and buyers were pleading with dealers to take the first one off the lot

As far as I can see, the only thing the sales arm of dealerships bring to the table has been discounts from MSRP when those discounts were actually available.....but may never be the case again. There is plenty of competition between brands from a direct sales model to as to keep a manufacturer's models competitively priced.

 

[sk47]

Then my fault. I can assure I've never seen something like this here in Europe. There is some markup but like this is crazy.

Hello; I am active in a different thread about huge markups for the more unique models such as a GT 500. Lots of diverging viewpoints. $30,000 is nothing compared to those markups.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Sometimes getting into these EV discussions is absolutely pointless. EV and climate change folks are so damn engrained into the thoughts of the world collapsing that they don't look past the end of their noses.

Fact: The United States electrical grid cannot handle a 100% EV environment. Hell, just read the headlines in California over the last two days. You cannot sugar coat what is being said. You cannot micro manage your "charge times" or "charge amounts" to bury the fact that 100% EV is simply a pipe dream being pushed by those that hump granola bars.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with EV as an *alternative* but not a full-blown direction. Those that think that EV's are going to be "cheaper" are absolutely blind. They may be right now in some situations, but there is absolutely no way, that governmental (tax uptake), nor private sector (profit folk), are going to be behind billions lost without making it up somewhere (electrical power is going to get real f*cking expensive in the coming years).

It's time to play nice on both sides of the isle folks. If we don't, the whole energy system is going to collapse and it is the tax payers and public that are going to suffer...

Good post - exactly what I've been saying as well regarding the "let's go full EV RIGHT NOW" mentality.... No one is looking at the big picture at all... it's as simple as that...

 

[Hack]

EVs are better, have you ever actually driven one?

Your signature says you own a 2019 GT. I'd like to know why you own that?

To answer your question, yes I have driven a golf cart before. I as a rule am not interested in vehicles that don't have a manual transmission. I have a 1999 F250 that I use to clear snow from the driveway and for occasional towing or hauling, but other than that, no automatics.

You’re just wrong

do you think people didn’t say this when gasoline motors took over for horses?

there are no scary times ahead for anything to do with EVs.

Definitely not. There was no reason. Once the cars were better and cheaper, people bought them more and more. They UPgraded. Cars had better range than a horse. And cars were quicker to refill with energy. And they didn't require a special location to sit while they were sleeping/eating/refilling. See what I did there?

This is no longer a political issue, it doesn't matter how lenient the rules get, the automakers themselves have decided they don't want to produce ICE cars any more.

Its not about regulations, its about money.


This is what I've been trying to say, there is no federal rule about banning ICE vehicles yet all of the big three have begun the transition to EV's.

They're here to stay and ICE vehicles are becoming obsolete, the evidence is there, the companies have began the transition, its over. I don't understand why this is some sort of loss, or sad thing, life changes all the time

Sometimes changes are good. Other times not at all. I think if people like you who think EVs are great are still buying cars like a 2019 Mustang, the automakers are going to have a lot of trouble with people like me who think EVs are terrible. I would consider buying an EV to replace my 1999 F250 if it could do all the same stuff and was available for about $2k. Otherwise I would wait until the 1999 F250 is worn out, which might be many many years. I only put a few hundred miles per year on it. Right now, it only has about 240,000 miles on it, so it should have a lot of life left.

 

[junits15]

Your signature says you own a 2019 GT. I'd like to know why you own that?

To answer your question, yes I have driven a golf cart before. I as a rule am not interested in vehicles that don't have a manual transmission. I have a 1999 F250 that I use to clear snow from the driveway and for occasional towing or hauling, but other than that, no automatics.



Definitely not. There was no reason. Once the cars were better and cheaper, people bought them more and more. They UPgraded. Cars had better range than a horse. And cars were quicker to refill with energy. And they didn't require a special location to sit while they were sleeping/eating/refilling. See what I did there?



Sometimes changes are good. Other times not at all. I think if people like you who think EVs are great are still buying cars like a 2019 Mustang, the automakers are going to have a lot of trouble with people like me who think EVs are terrible. I would consider buying an EV to replace my 1999 F250 if it could do all the same stuff and was available for about $2k. Otherwise I would wait until the 1999 F250 is worn out, which might be many many years. I only put a few hundred miles per year on it. Right now, it only has about 240,000 miles on it, so it should have a lot of life left.

We have different opinions on this, the thread is on warning, its best if we let this go.

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