HP GT vs MACH 1

[Schwerin]

Yes, but they discontinued the GT350 at the same time as they launched the Mach 1. So there were no more toes to step on.

Look at how Ford works, they never release a car that clearly is ahead of a previous special edition that just ended unless its a NEW version of that same name or there has been a year gap.

01 Cobra and 03-04 Mach1 are about on par
03-04 Cobra wasnt passed by a non SVT product till the 12-13 Boss
13 Boss wasnt passed till 15 GT350
2020 gt350 is about even with 2021 Mach1.

It's how Ford operates and has for YEARS. Multiple years have to pass before a Non Shelby/SVT team product can be based by a "mustang team based" product.

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[shogun32]

Yes, but they discontinued the GT350 at the same time as they launched the Mach 1. So there were no more toes to step on.

as if you REALLY believed that! Can you just imagine the howling from the other half of this forum if their precious Shelby were to be trivially superseded? Oh wait, the hue and cry is going on in the One Lap thread. I think it's hilarious. I wonder how close the GT500 is to the real 'GT' these days. Oh wait, it's only a second faster. HOW DARE THEY!

 

[Turian]

I owned a 2019 GT 6 speed. I went looking to trade it in for something a little newer. I occasionally drag race at a 1000ft track. I mostly daily drive my Mustang, but spend some time on the backroads on "spirited drives".

I said all of that to say this, I test drove the Mach 1, and the 2021 GT. And my conclusion is that on the track, I can see the Mach 1 upgrades mattering. But on the street? Nope. They feel and drive the same. NLS? Both have it. I have a theory that the 2021 GT and Mach 1 both use the same updated strategy for Manual driving. When No lift shifting, the throttle is cut at high RPM when you step on the clutch, and this takes care of the 3rd gear lockout at high RPMs. So the Tremec is no longer needed for a DAILY driver or even a spirited driver. The issues I once had on my 2019, are completely gone with this 2021 GT.

I can't bring myself to pay 10-15k more than what a premium GT costs, for upgrades I will never see any use out of. I had a choice between a Mach 1 at 58,500, or a CS/GT at 48k. And to be honest, the Mach 1 left me with a bad taste in my mouth after the test drive. I was NO faster than my 19, it rode poorly, and the Tremec felt just a mushy as a MT-82, likely due to the shifter still being remote/body mounted. I expected the Mach 1 to feel more like my 08 GT500 did. Instead the Tremec shifter still feels just as poor as any other MT-82 shifter.

I am starting to think its all just luck of the draw on these cars. I've owned 7 Mustangs, and driven a 2020 GT500 on track, which I DO NOT recommend unless you want to constantly be disappointed when having to drive a car that's NOT a GT500 afterward. Only two of the 7 were auto's, and one was a 08 GT500. With the exception of those three, the other three needed new shifters to fix them, with the exception of this 2021.

TLDR; I think the 2021 MY is what is different, not just the Mach 1. And I think they are closer on performance than Ford will admit.

EDIT: I could also see the edges of the sticker on the hood. It looked cheap and constantly reminded me that it wasn't matte paint, it was a decal. BUMMER.

 

[Dave2013M3]

given the downward trajectory of the torque curve past 6000 and that the intake doesn't help, I don't see the point. I mean it'll still be "cool" but it unlikely to have any useful effect.

Exactly, whats funny is the Ford Racing tune that uses the GT350 intake, tune and throttle body makes more torque than the Bullitt and Mach 1.

 

[Schwerin]

Exactly, whats funny is the Ford Racing tune that uses the GT350 intake, tune and throttle body makes more torque than the Bullitt and Mach 1.

it also requires 91, the Bullitt/Mach1 dont. Likely a reason why.

 

[Dave2013M3]

it also requires 91, the Bullitt/Mach1 dont. Likely a reason why.

The Mustang Mach 1 HP rating is with 93 octane, but I think you are right. Ford Racing is flaunting that the motor makes 20rwhp more at 2200rpm probably due to the fact it requires 91 and the fact the OEM 18+ IM makes better low end than the GT350 IM.

 

[Mdtaylorjr]

I'm pretty sure all the actual power increase is in the TB and the cai tube. Because Ford performance is selling the power pack with only the TB, cai, and tune and claiming 19hp andn18 tq . The biggest increase is the 40 tq at low rpm.

 

[Dave2013M3]

I'm pretty sure all the actual power increase is in the TB and the cai tube. Because Ford performance is selling the power pack with only the TB, cai, and tune and claiming 19hp andn18 tq . The biggest increase is the 40 tq at low rpm.

I have this kit, and I am very happy with it.

 

[boB]

I'm pretty sure all the actual power increase is in the TB and the cai tube. Because Ford performance is selling the power pack with only the TB, cai, and tune and claiming 19hp andn18 tq . The biggest increase is the 40 tq at low rpm.

The funny thing is that the throttle body and CAI are not likely to add anything at low rpm, all that 40 tq is probably timing (thus the need for 91 octane).

 

[Dave2013M3]

I have this kit, and I am very happy with it.

Also that 40

The funny thing is that the throttle body and CAI are not likely to add anything at low rpm, all that 40 tq is probably timing (thus the need for 91 octane).

That torque increase is so low in the rev range it's kind of worthless. There is a 20ft/lbs increase though through most of the rev range.

 

[Atlas1]

Not really, didn't cost the 2003 Mach1 much more to have engine based on the Terminator. Also the Mach1 is about the price of the GT350 which DOES have a bespoke engine.

It’s not just cost though. Dealing with EPA in 2021/2022 is prob a nightmare even compared to 2003. I’m in agreement with you guys, a high revving n/a 5.2 would have been sweet but it was never going to happen. Unfortunately too many obstacles in the way.

I agree with you, its a shame that the Mach 1 always follows in the shadow of another car. I originally wanted a 350, and still do, but the Mach fits my needs right now. When it first came out in 69, it was the top of food chain.

I don’t have enough experience with the classics to say but how would the boss have compared? I know the 429 but production being so low let’s ignore that one. Was the Mach above the boss 302 from a performance stand point? I thought the 302 was viewed as more of the track car and the Mach 1 a street car. Considering it was another 15 years before I was born I honestly don’t know how they compare

 

[Coastal-Mach]

It’s not just cost though. Dealing with EPA in 2021/2022 is prob a nightmare even compared to 2003. I’m in agreement with you guys, a high revving n/a 5.2 would have been sweet but it was never going to happen. Unfortunately too many obstacles in the way.


I don’t have enough experience with the classics to say but how would the boss have compared? I know the 429 but production being so low let’s ignore that one. Was the Mach above the boss 302 from a performance stand point? I thought the 302 was viewed as more of the track car and the Mach 1 a street car. Considering it was another 15 years before I was born I honestly don’t know how they compare

The Mach 1 was the option above a GT, and actually more were produced than the GT.

As far the Boss 429 cars, they are probably the most rare of the classics because it filled a niche. You are correct the 302 cars were produced for the track.

The original Machs were the top of the line cars that you could get a straight six to a Cobra Jet big block, plus the name Mach 1.

The other good thing about the classics is you could order it exactly how you want it. No packages to choose from.

 

[Cody5.0]

My biggest gripe when it comes to the Bullitt and Mach 1 engines is that there isn’t any difference in performance outside of dyno numbers. I figured the slight gear ratio upgrade in the TR-3160 would give it an edge over the MT82D4 but nope. The 10R80 cars are right on par with the GT too.

The GT350 intake and CAI make the engine look so much better but that’s about it. Neither provide any useable power differences within the same operational RPM of a GT. At bare minimum they should’ve got a little RPM bump or a set of FP 4.09 gears out back.

 

[ZeroTX]

The 03-04 Mach's did have 4v engines, but not fully forged like the terminator. The manual cars had a forged crank. I do see your point though, with the price point of a GT350

03-04 Mach1 had the 1999/2001 Cobra engine (as you said, not forged), but still a massive upgrade over the 2v.

 

[theruleslawyer]

My biggest gripe when it comes to the Bullitt and Mach 1 engines is that there isn’t any difference in performance outside of dyno numbers. I figured the slight gear ratio upgrade in the TR-3160 would give it an edge over the MT82D4 but nope. The 10R80 cars are right on par with the GT too.

The GT350 intake and CAI make the engine look so much better but that’s about it. Neither provide any useable power differences within the same operational RPM of a GT. At bare minimum they should’ve got a little RPM bump or a set of FP 4.09 gears out back.

It would be nice if you could order it that way. Long gears for mpg reasons unfortunately.

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