GT350 vs. GT350R (more reliable engine?)

[porterror]

I'm worried about the long term life of the GT350 engine in the used market and see most recommend buying the upgraded 2019+ GT350. I saw a couple people recommend shopping a GT350R because it has the upgraded enigne in all years of it's make? Is this true? Does the GT350R already have the upgrade internals of the 2019+ GT350 engine?

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[key01]

Nope

 

[Caballus]

I'm worried about the long term life of the GT350 engine in the used market and see most recommend buying the upgraded 2019+ GT350. I saw a couple people recommend shopping a GT350R because it has the upgraded enigne in all years of it's make? Is this true? Does the GT350R already have the upgrade internals of the 2019+ GT350 engine?

Yes, the R engine is sturdier than the non-R. As of 2019 the R and non-R have the same engine--sturdier than the previous years' non-R.

 

[porterror]

Yes, the R engine is sturdier than the non-R. As of 2019 the R and non-R have the same engine--sturdier than the previous years' non-R.

but a 2016-2018 GT350R is the same exact engine as the GT350? Correct? just all models 2019+ get the upgrade internals?

 

[EFI]

Yes, the R engine is sturdier than the non-R. As of 2019 the R and non-R have the same engine--sturdier than the previous years' non-R.

Can you please share the details of what makes the R engine more sturdier than the non-R engine for MY 2018 and prior?

 

[svassh]

I've not seen anything published by Ford stating the motors are different or upgraded between R and 350 for prior to 2019. I think there is speculation that starting in 2019 they updated the motor for the GT500 to handle the supercharger boost. But again I don't know that Ford has published the actual differences.

If worried about a used 350/R just make sure its not tuned and purchase an extended warranty. From what I have seen Ford has stepped up and replaced motors that were not tuned or boosted.

 

[torque124]

I did not believe this at first, but apparently the R has some internals different than the non R:

" A little something we learned during this process is that the R-model Voodoo engines receive unique lash adjusters, VCT mechanisms and cam covers, and these engines carry code 151."

It is in this specific article below. Not sure what difference it makes, but if that is true, then they are different in that area:

https://www.fordnxt.com/tech-storie...ms-build-the-shelby-gt350s-voodoo-5-2-engine/

 

[svassh]

I did not believe this at first, but apparently the R has some internals different than the non R:

" A little something we learned during this process is that the R-model Voodoo engines receive unique lash adjusters, VCT mechanisms and cam covers, and these engines carry code 151."

It is in this specific article below. Not sure what difference it makes, but if that is true, then they are different in that area:

https://www.fordnxt.com/tech-storie...ms-build-the-shelby-gt350s-voodoo-5-2-engine/

Interesting wonder what difference those actually make? If more HP I would think they would want to call that out as a feature.

 

[EFI]

Interesting wonder what difference those actually make? If more HP I would think they would want to call that out as a feature.

If those are the 3 things different between the R and non-R engine, then they produce no extra power nor strength. Maybe a little bit more longevity, but I can't say I've seen many lash failures, and certainly valve covers don't ever fail either.

The VCT mechanism is the only "real" upgrade, but I've I'm hoping to find some details as far as what that entails and how that improves the engine function.

 

[torque124]

If those are the 3 things different between the R and non-R engine, then they produce no extra power nor strength. Maybe a little bit more longevity, but I can't say I've seen many lash failures, and certainly valve covers don't ever fail either.

The VCT mechanism is the only "real" upgrade, but I've I'm hoping to find some details as far as what that entails and how that improves the engine function.

I agree, very unlikely to make more power. If anything they might be for reliability during high performance driving. I mean the R is most likely to put down more track days and high RPM driving than the non-R, so they might have done something there to make sure it does not fail?
To be honest, my R does see more track days than my non-R track pack did, and it is less used in city driving... so apples to apples, it will be spending more of it's life above 5000 RPM's.

 

[Caballus]

but a 2016-2018 GT350R is the same exact engine as the GT350? Correct? just all models 2019+ get the upgrade internals?

As noted by others, they were different until 2019. Now they are the same.

No difference in horsepower. Difference in tolerances, which go beyond the fact that they both have the GT500 block as of 2019.

Having said that, you'd be hard pressed to find anything that details specifics.

Edit: @honeybadger may be able to elaborate.

 

[Wildcardfox]

I will add to this with information that I gained from one of the top engineers on the GT350 and GT500 programs when I spoke to him at the media events for the GT500 last October in Las Vegas.

When interviewing him about the difference between the GT500 and GT350 he said:

The motors in the 2015-2018 GT350 and GT350R are different. The base cars of those years could not reach the g-forces around the track that the GT350R could, so there was baffling that prevent starvation at high g-forces that was not implemented in the base cars. A direct quote from him was that “If you replace your 2015-2018 R motor with a base GT350 motor, you do not have an R anymore.”

He said that because the base model in 2019 could reach g-forces on track that required baffling, that is why all 2019 GT350/GT350Rs receive the same exact motor that have baffling.

So there you have it. 2015-2018 motors are different, change was because of ability to reach a certain g-force threshold that required baffling, and all 2019 models receive the same baffling.

None of these changes were the result of engine oil issues of broken motors but was due to on track Perfromance.

 

[thill444]

As noted above there were some changes in 2019 and up but there is zero scientific proof that 2019 and up motors won't have similar failure rates to 2015-2018. It's far too early to know, and there have been several reports now of 2019+ cars with low mileage having engine failure. It is what it is. I would buy the newest GT350 my budget allowed with the options I want.

 

[EFI]

I will add to this with information that I gained from one of the top engineers on the GT350 and GT500 programs when I spoke to him at the media events for the GT500 last October in Las Vegas.

When interviewing him about the difference between the GT500 and GT350 he said:

The motors in the 2015-2018 GT350 and GT350R are different. The base cars of those years could not reach the g-forces around the track that the GT350R could, so there was baffling that prevent starvation at high g-forces that was not implemented in the base cars. A direct quote from him was that “If you replace your 2015-2018 R motor with a base GT350 motor, you do not have an R anymore.”

He said that because the base model in 2019 could reach g-forces on track that required baffling, that is why all 2019 GT350/GT350Rs receive the same exact motor that have baffling.

So there you have it. 2015-2018 motors are different, change was because of ability to reach a certain g-force threshold that required baffling, and all 2019 models receive the same baffling.

None of these changes were the result of engine oil issues of broken motors but was due to on track Perfromance.

That all sounds like only the oil pan and/or the oil pan baffling is different...doesn't say much about the engine itself. What else would be considered baffling for oil control that's not in the oil pan itself?

 

[Wildcardfox]

That all sounds like only the oil pan and/or the oil pan baffling is different...doesn't say much about the engine itself. What else would be considered baffling for oil control that's not in the oil pan itself?

If it was just a different pan, then he would have said the only difference is the oil pan. He didn’t say that. He also didn’t say “if you put a base GT350 motor without changing to the R pan then you would not have an R.” He did say, “if you put a base 350 motor in a GT350R then you don’t have an R anymore.”

That is what one of the top engineers on the program said. I’d take him at his word and not discount it as some small change like a difference of oil pan.

I report, that’s the facts from a person who was integral to the design of both the GT350/GT350R and GT500 programs, and that’s what he said, actually unsolicited during an interview. You either take the facts of what they said as a fact or you don’t.

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