2020 GT500 CFTP Destroys C8 Corvette - Motortrend Comparison Review

[Hack]

It's believable if you factor in that a great majority of vettes sold will likely be close to $80k or above. If 5% of cars are sold at cost (or below), you are still making money on the other 95%.

I'm not sure why you think it's believable, but I'm not going to keep going back and forth on it.

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[Snowwolfe]

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-ca...il&date=121919&utm_campaign=nl18925174&src=nl

 

[millhouse]

Thanks for making the point--the cross shopping is because of a price point. If you honestly believe a person looking for a RWD front engine sports coupe that seats 4 is also in the market for a mid-engine 2-seat sports car that borders on the exotic, who am I to disabuse you of the notion. But, I suggest that the cross-shopping is going to between a Mustang and a Camaro, or a Challenger.

Nothing screams exotic like a mass produced car.

Funny thing is, people have canceled their C8 orders to purchase GT500's.....and vice versa. As much as you and other people may not like it, these cars are cross shopped more than you think.

I mentioned GTE, because that is where GM (via Pratt & Miller) already runs a N/A 5.5L V8. (Which is very strong performer.)The 488 is a 2-seat mid-engine sports car. The Covette is a 2-seat mid-engine sports car. The 488 competes in GTE. The Corvette competes in GTE. Both companies offer a street version of that car. (See any similarities there?) Except for the price, the C8 shares far more characteristics with the 488 than it does with the GT 500.

So what happens when (if) GM does offer a hand-assembled 5.5L in the C8--do you still believe that the price point will be comparable to the GT 500? You may--but I doubt it. I don't think it will be priced south of $100K.

As far as your opinion of GM not taking the Corvette upscale. That isn't what GM is saying:

"It was our intent to make the car more premium," says Kirk Bennion, exterior design manager for General Motors. We're weren't achieving what we (needed) on the luxury-sport side of Corvette."

The Z06 will absolutely be above $100k starting msrp.

 

[roygriffin2020]

Somebody’s rattled.... Yep when a base Mustang GT500 beats Chevys halo revolutionary sports car you get people all kinda rattled and upset..

The base C8 is not GM's Halo car, This is GM's "Halo car",

https://www.motortrend.com/news/c8-chevrolet-corvette-zr1-hybrid-twin-turbo-dohc-v-8-with-900-hp/

 

[millhouse]

The base C8 is not GM's Halo car, This is GM's "Halo car",

https://www.motortrend.com/news/c8-chevrolet-corvette-zr1-hybrid-twin-turbo-dohc-v-8-with-900-hp/

The corvette C8 is GM's halo car. The ZR1 is simply a package.

 

[roygriffin2020]

The corvette C8 is GM's halo car. The ZR1 is simply a package.

If that is true, then using that logic, and flawed I might add, then the GT500 is not Ford's Halo car as compared to the Mustang EcoBoost 4 banger. The GT500 is just an option package. Sure....then why is the EcoBoost not under Performance Cars on Ford's website. It is under Cars with the Fusion and Fiesta that they will no longer make.

 

[5.Oh Crush]

Nothing screams exotic like a mass produced car.

Funny thing is, people have canceled their C8 orders to purchase GT500's.....and vice versa. As much as you and other people may not like it, these cars are cross shopped more than you think.



The Z06 will absolutely be above $100k starting msrp.

I doubt above 100K starting because where it is now. Let's say it is, it will get 10-20K off MSRP at some point in 2nd or 3rd year per historical trend.

 

[Hack]

I doubt above 100K starting because where it is now. Let's say it is, it will get 10-20K off MSRP at some point in 2nd or 3rd year per historical trend.

Does everyone think the Z06 will be sold "not for profit" as well as the base car? If the base car has to be over $80k to "make a profit", then the Z06 with more content would have to be priced higher, no?

 

[V00D00]

Are we still on this?

GT500 is slaughtering everything

/end thread

 

[roygriffin2020]

Does everyone think the Z06 will be sold "not for profit" as well as the base car? If the base car has to be over $80k to "make a profit", then the Z06 with more content would have to be priced higher, no?

If it is sold, "not for profit", then we can call it the Salvation Army C8 and make it a non-profit organization.

 

[roygriffin2020]

Are we still on this?

GT500 is slaughtering everything

/end thread

I don't quite agree with "everything"....

 

[Arkarius]

You already answered your own question. They are most definitely factoring in R&D costs, which will amortize over time, resulting in more profit the longer they make the car.

I thought the base c8 price was going to be higher, was shocked when 60k was announced. At this point it's hard to say how much a Z is going to cost.

If they build a new DOHC engine that will be used in multiple vehicles, I could see the price being lower, but with EV's taking over, is it really the right time to invest in a brand new v8 platform? If they build a unique engine for the car, then yeah, I think near 100k starting point is probably realistic.

I have no desire to downgrade to a base c8 from my ZL1. Even if its puts power down better, there's no way that car is going to be as fun.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

I bet if you take all the parts and labor in a C8 and add up the cost it's not more than $30k. Frankly I'd be surprised if it's even $25k. If you add in all the overhead and upfront costs at GM - all the engineering work, marketing work, tooling and fixturing costs, the cost of buildings and utilities - with some combination of all those things and depreciation added in, then and only then can you say that it's a loss.

Of course GM has to pay for all the tooling and the buildings and engineering development and all that other stuff - so those costs are very relevant to keeping GM afloat long term and having the C8 be a profitable product line. However, IMO it's disingenuous to say that $60k is a loss. Otherwise they would have priced it higher. They are making money on every car. It will just take longer to pay off all the up front investments at $60k per car than it would at $80k each.

Obviously I don't have the actual numbers but IMO logic says they are selling at a significantly higher number than what the cost of each car is.

This is just a marketing statement to explain why they are going to raise the price next year.

You're probably right that GM's price to build the base C8 is likely less than the MSRP. However, that is only part of the pie that goes into the cost of a car. They are factoring in R&D and tooling costs into that equation and all that must be paid off before the end of the C8's life cycle. If not, then the car is a financial loss. This info. likely is trying to say that at base price, GM could never pay off the R&D and tooling costs in the lifetime of the C8 generation (i.e., in the next 7-9 years). That is selling them at a loss. It takes higher prices to break even and exceed the R&D and tooling costs during the C8's generation.

 

[roygriffin2020]

You're probably right that GM's price to build the base C8 is likely less than the MSRP. However, that is only part of the pie that goes into the cost of a car. They are factoring in R&D and tooling costs into that equation and all that must be paid off before the end of the C8's life cycle. If not, then the car is a financial loss. This info. likely is trying to say that at base price, GM could never pay off the R&D and tooling costs in the lifetime of the C8 generation (i.e., in the next 7-9 years). That is selling them at a loss. It takes higher prices to break even and exceed the R&D and tooling costs during the C8's generation.

All what you said is true. You took economics in college I presume? But also the more parts are replaced by other vehicles, say the 5.5 Blackbird and they write off the losses for the 6.2L and use existing engines, etc, the more profitable it can be quickly. Even better, if GM makes another Cadillac "corvette" XLR, the costs really go down.

 

[02gtnh]

The corvette C8 is GM's halo car. The ZR1 is simply a package.

You can’t be serious.

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