2020 GT500 CFTP Destroys C8 Corvette - Motortrend Comparison Review

[Hack]

Hard to believe, I know. Apparently they had originally planned on the starting MSRP being closer to that $80k number...and they reduced it as they feared sales would tank. It's interesting to see that all of these C8's that they have been testing are optioned to have an MSRP north of $80k.

I bet if you take all the parts and labor in a C8 and add up the cost it's not more than $30k. Frankly I'd be surprised if it's even $25k. If you add in all the overhead and upfront costs at GM - all the engineering work, marketing work, tooling and fixturing costs, the cost of buildings and utilities - with some combination of all those things and depreciation added in, then and only then can you say that it's a loss.

Of course GM has to pay for all the tooling and the buildings and engineering development and all that other stuff - so those costs are very relevant to keeping GM afloat long term and having the C8 be a profitable product line. However, IMO it's disingenuous to say that $60k is a loss. Otherwise they would have priced it higher. They are making money on every car. It will just take longer to pay off all the up front investments at $60k per car than it would at $80k each.

Obviously I don't have the actual numbers but IMO logic says they are selling at a significantly higher number than what the cost of each car is.

This is just a marketing statement to explain why they are going to raise the price next year.

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[Strokerswild]

Nice. This is what we should be talking about.

I'm not into big boobs at all, but big, regular or small, they need to be real. That being said, we have a good friend with massive ones, fake, she's constantly whipping them out, rubbing them on people, it's pretty fun.

It's all good.

Even the fake ones are real on the outside.

 

[mmm635]

I am not sure the 5.5 qualifies as news. There was speculation all along that the mid-engine C8 might have a 5.5L engine based on the GTE class Corvette 5.5L built by Pratt & Miller. Past GTE class rules in IMSA limited N/A displacement to 5.5L, with smaller displacement (under 4L?) to use forced induction. It maybe that GM will bring the 5.5L to the street, but I would expect that to come at a cost. I.E. I doubt it will be available under $100K. The Ferrari 488 racing against the Covertte in the GTE runs a 3.9L turbo V8. as does the GTB. It's out of my price range at somewhere north of $256K.

The comparison to the GT 500 needs to stop. It seems clear GM is aiming to take the Corvette upscale. Why would GM build a mid-engine Corvette, equip it with a GTE class power plant to compete with a $75K sports coupe? Anyone cross-shopping a Mustang with a Ferrari 488 GTB? (I don't think so). However, comparing a 2-seat mid-engine production car to a 2-seat mid-engine production car that races in the same GTE class makes (dollars and cents) sense. GM can leverage Ferrari-like styling, Ferrari-beating performance (maybe), and price their product up to $200K and still have buyers consider it a bargain in comparison to a Ferrari 488, GTB, or spider..

It would make sense that Ford can throw a contender in the ring with a 2 seat mid-engine car based off of Ford GT technology when that happens. Similar in nature with what Porsche did with the 959, CGT, etc. The R&D will pay off in the future.

 

[millhouse]

I bet if you take all the parts and labor in a C8 and add up the cost it's not more than $30k. Frankly I'd be surprised if it's even $25k. If you add in all the overhead and upfront costs at GM - all the engineering work, marketing work, tooling and fixturing costs, the cost of buildings and utilities - with some combination of all those things and depreciation added in, then and only then can you say that it's a loss.

Of course GM has to pay for all the tooling and the buildings and engineering development and all that other stuff - so those costs are very relevant to keeping GM afloat long term and having the C8 be a profitable product line. However, IMO it's disingenuous to say that $60k is a loss. Otherwise they would have priced it higher. They are making money on every car. It will just take longer to pay off all the up front investments at $60k per car than it would at $80k each.

Obviously I don't have the actual numbers but IMO logic says they are selling at a significantly higher number than what the cost of each car is.

This is just a marketing statement to explain why they are going to raise the price next year.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/source-chevrolet-corvette-c8-stingray-loss-leader/

"While we still don't know how much the C8's price will rise in 2021, a more senior GM official tells us it would have to go through the roof in order to cover GM's cost."

"According to our source, the original budget for the C8 project assumed a starting price of $79,995. This is certainly reasonable considering the enormous amount of work needed to redesign the car into a mid-engine configuration, but it's a huge jump from the C7. In order to keep customers from revolting, Chevy is taking it on the chin and willingly losing money on every C8 it sells for less than $80,000. "

"More critical are the base prices of upcoming performance variants including Z06 and ZR1. According to our source, the sweet spot for profit and volume is between $80,000 and $100,000."

 

[roygriffin2020]

People aren't cross shopping these vehicles because they are in racing classes. They are cross shopping them because they offer similar levels of performance in areas and are available in a similar price range. They absolutely should be compared. People cross shop vehicles for many...may reasons.

And GM isn't aiming to take the corvette upscale. They were stuck with RWD performance...and had to go mid engine or face being behind the eight ball. They wan't to compete with the high end cars...but on a budget. The big boys were jumping ahead....and the mustang GT and camaro SS was catching up.

No where in history was the Corvette compared to the Mustang, it was always the Camaro. The vette has always been in a league by itself as the only 2 seater sports car made in America and it is still that way. The Mustang is not a 2 seater and the only comparison is on this site because of some "test" which has been the closest a Mustang has ever been to a vette. Only because it was pitted against the lowest HP car against the highest HP car and there seems to be some shallow victory to boast about. They are blinded by a 1 second time and shout "destroyed" or "demolished". I am glad the GT500 has come about for the replacement for the Lincoln Log old GT500.

 

[Hack]

https://www.motortrend.com/news/source-chevrolet-corvette-c8-stingray-loss-leader/

"While we still don't know how much the C8's price will rise in 2021, a more senior GM official tells us it would have to go through the roof in order to cover GM's cost."

"According to our source, the original budget for the C8 project assumed a starting price of $79,995. This is certainly reasonable considering the enormous amount of work needed to redesign the car into a mid-engine configuration, but it's a huge jump from the C7. In order to keep customers from revolting, Chevy is taking it on the chin and willingly losing money on every C8 it sells for less than $80,000. "

"More critical are the base prices of upcoming performance variants including Z06 and ZR1. According to our source, the sweet spot for profit and volume is between $80,000 and $100,000."

If I were writing in a clear fashion about this I would say that GM wanted to pay off the project costs in XX months originally, and at the current sales prices instead it will take YY months. Saying that they are losing money on every car is something a car salesman would say, not an accountant.

Even if every magazine spouts the same info from GM, I still wouldn't believe. It's just not believable in my opinion.

 

[millhouse]

If I were writing in a clear fashion about this I would say that GM wanted to pay off the project costs in XX months originally, and at the current sales prices instead it will take YY months. Saying that they are losing money on every car is something a car salesman would say, not an accountant.

Even if every magazine spouts the same info from GM, I still wouldn't believe. It's just not believable in my opinion.

It's believable if you factor in that a great majority of vettes sold will likely be close to $80k or above. If 5% of cars are sold at cost (or below), you are still making money on the other 95%.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

In other news, apparantly GM loses money on every C8 corvette sold for under $80k.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/1...on-all-corvette-c8s-sold-for-less-than-80000/

As for the Z06, it absolutely should beat the GT500 carbon pack....and it will likely start well north of $100k.

If that's true that's a hell of a gamble GM undertook. But It doesn't make sense to me. Does it cost that much more to build a Corvette. Than a Camaro?

 

[thill444]

It's believable if you factor in that a great majority of vettes sold will likely be close to $80k or above. If 5% of cars are sold at cost (or below), you are still making money on the other 95%.

Kerbeck is the biggest Corvette dealer in the US and based on some of their preliminary orders, I would say the average price is high $80K's. Very few people appear to be buying a $60K base Corvette with no options. Which makes sense as the early adopters/buyers tend to have more money and are willing to pay MSRP and perhaps even ADM.

 

[roygriffin2020]

In other news, apparantly GM loses money on every C8 corvette sold for under $80k.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/1...on-all-corvette-c8s-sold-for-less-than-80000/

As for the Z06, it absolutely should beat the GT500 carbon pack....and it will likely start well north of $100k.

Then we should all buy the cheapest one and make GM lose money so they will go bankrupt and then the Mustang won't have any competition.

 

[roygriffin2020]

Kerbeck is the biggest Corvette dealer in the US and based on some of their preliminary orders, I would say the average price is high $80K's. Very few people appear to be buying a $60K base Corvette with no options. Which makes sense as the early adopters/buyers tend to have more money and are willing to pay MSRP and perhaps even ADM.

Just like almost no one bought the Base GT350, I didn't. I would not want the cheapest.

 

[Boss2013]

No way it's true that they lose money on every car under $80k.

It's true, from GM itself and reported in dozens of articles across the spectrum. Here's the same info from Automobile.

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2020-chevy-corvette-c8-stingray-loses-money/

 

[mmm635]

If that's true that's a hell of a gamble GM undertook. But It doesn't make sense to me. Does it cost that much more to build a Corvette. Than a Camaro?

GM invested $500 million to retool the plant for the C8 - that is most likely factored in.

 

[Boss2013]

Then we should all buy the cheapest one and make GM lose money so they will go bankrupt and then the Mustang won't have any competition.

That's BlaqWhole's strategy.

 

[6String]

People aren't cross shopping these vehicles because they are in racing classes. They are cross shopping them because they offer similar levels of performance in areas and are available in a similar price range. They absolutely should be compared. People cross shop vehicles for many...may reasons.

And GM isn't aiming to take the corvette upscale. They were stuck with RWD performance...and had to go mid engine or face being behind the eight ball. They wan't to compete with the high end cars...but on a budget. The big boys were jumping ahead....and the mustang GT and camaro SS was catching up.

Thanks for making the point--the cross shopping is because of a price point. If you honestly believe a person looking for a RWD front engine sports coupe that seats 4 is also in the market for a mid-engine 2-seat sports car that borders on the exotic, who am I to disabuse you of the notion. But, I suggest that the cross-shopping is going to between a Mustang and a Camaro, or a Challenger.

I mentioned GTE, because that is where GM (via Pratt & Miller) already runs a N/A 5.5L V8. (Which is very strong performer.)The 488 is a 2-seat mid-engine sports car. The Covette is a 2-seat mid-engine sports car. The 488 competes in GTE. The Corvette competes in GTE. Both companies offer a street version of that car. (See any similarities there?) Except for the price, the C8 shares far more characteristics with the 488 than it does with the GT 500.

So what happens when (if) GM does offer a hand-assembled 5.5L in the C8--do you still believe that the price point will be comparable to the GT 500? You may--but I doubt it. I don't think it will be priced south of $100K.

As far as your opinion of GM not taking the Corvette upscale. That isn't what GM is saying:

"It was our intent to make the car more premium," says Kirk Bennion, exterior design manager for General Motors. We're weren't achieving what we (needed) on the luxury-sport side of Corvette."

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