BBQ Tick After Oil Change...

[accel]

I pre-fill the oil filter as much as possible. My 15 GT has never ticked.

I have always been prefilling filters. This did not save me.

What I started doing with mustang - I run engine on the battery until oil pressure builds up and then some. It actually takes time before pressure builds up.

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[accel]

I heard Mos2 isn't as effective.

One other superlube additive on the market is Rislone Nano Prime with Tungsten Nano spheres. I wonder if anyone has tried it with success?

Ceratec is better than mos2. The reason why I consider mos2 in outgoing oil is because it does not look THAT weird.

To clarify, I think the following should work as tick preventstive (not suppressing( measure:

- mustang owner is not having engine tick. He/she is lucky, but concerned, runs oil without additives.

- several hundred miles before scheduled oil change the owner should add mos2 into the old oil. Mos2 should ensure protective film parts coating during engine start right after the oil change, when new oil is not delivered everywhere.

My observation is that at my mustang it takes a while before oil pressure builds up.

I suspect whatever is causing bbq tick is triggered during this interim engine start while experiencing temporary engine starvation.

- if this theory is correct, new oil does not have to contain mos2.

 

[GT Pony]

I have always been prefilling filters. This did not save me.

What I started doing with mustang - I run engine on the battery until oil pressure builds up and then some. It actually takes time before pressure builds up.

Than I don't see how it could be oil starvation related during an oil change like you said earlier. Millions of cars have oil changes and doesn't seem to hurt or affect them.

You said you think your oil pressure takes a while to come up after an oil change. I don't see that on my 2015 after an oil change, nothing abnormal IMO.

 

[Dfeeds]

Than I don't see how it could be oil starvation related during an oil change like you said earlier. Millions of cars have oil changes and doesn't seem to hurt or affect them.

You said you think your oil pressure takes a while to come up after an oil change. I don't see that on my 2015 after an oil change, nothing abnormal IMO.

Me either. My oil pressure is at about 100 upon start up.

Despite that, I had the bbq tick during the summer with 5w30.

I do not have the bbq tick at the moment, with 5w20, now that it's colder out. I don't think it's valid to assume it's a viscosity difference, given what everyone here is running. I also can't see how ambient temps would play a role, especially after the car has been driven for an hour. The cylinder head temps do run a bit cooler with me always having the heat on, but that being a factor goes against what I know about thermodynamics.

Hmmmm. I guess another difference is that I didn't swap out the oil filter As such, I didn't need to fill it. 10 qts puts the oil mark just above the hash marks, right below the top dot. Could this have any sort of bearing, I wonder? Those who run ceratec have it so the dipstick is brought up to the top, as well, if I'm not mistaken. Maybe that's why ceratec "instantly" gets rid of the tick. That extra smidge of oil could be cushioning or muffling whatever is causing the tick, for those of us that have it. Or the extra bit of oil is enough to prevent any sort of air bubbles from forming.

This is easy to test if someone has their oil mark in between the hash marks, as is normal, and has the bbq tick. They simply just add enough oil to bring it up to full and see if the tick is less audible or goes away.

 

[GT Pony]

Me either. My oil pressure is at about 100 upon start up.

Despite that, I had the bbq tick during the summer with 5w30.

I do not have the bbq tick at the moment, with 5w20, now that it's colder out. I don't think it's valid to assume it's a viscosity difference, given what everyone here is running. I also can't see how ambient temps would play a role, especially after the car has been driven for an hour. The cylinder head temps do run a bit cooler with me always having the heat on, but that being a factor goes against what I know about thermodynamics.

I'm wondering if maybe the bottom end runs cooler when the ambient air temperature is much colder. The block, oil pan and probably the crank/rod assy might run a bit cooler in cold weather because that area of the motor is not directly water cooled, but rather the cooling is driven by convection and radiation to the atmosphere. So might go back to a clearance issue in the bottom end that is effected by the temperature of the mechanisms.

Hmmmm. I guess another difference is that I didn't swap out the oil filter As such, I didn't need to fill it. 10 qts puts the oil mark just above the hash marks, right below the top dot.

This is easy to test if someone has their oil mark in between the hash marks, as is normal, and has the bbq tick. They simply just add enough oil to bring it up to full and see if the tick is less audible or goes away.

When the oil is hot or cold? If the oil is at the top of the hash marks when cold, then it will be at the top hole when hot because the oil volume (and therefore the oil level) increases when hot. So regardless if you're talking about the level either hot or cold, the level isn't going to be anything close to overfull where it would affect the engine.

I've ran my oil level to just a little bit above the Add bottom hole, and the engine never sounded any different.

 

[accel]

.Millions of cars have oil changes and doesn't seem to hurt or affect them.

never knew a bunch of other car engines were having bbq tick issues. thought ot was coyote only.

 

[GT Pony]

never knew a bunch of other car engines were having bbq tick issues. thought ot was coyote only.

Well, I should have said it doesn't cause any abnormal engine noises (ie "affects them", since engine noises is the issue of discussion) ... that's what I was getting at.

 

[Dfeeds]

I'm wondering if maybe the bottom end runs cooler when the ambient air temperature is much colder. The block, oil pan and probably the crank/rod assy might run a bit cooler in cold weather because that area of the motor is not directly water cooled, but rather the cooling is driven by convection and radiation to the atmosphere. So might go back to a clearance issue in the bottom end that is effected by the temperature of the mechanisms.

I suppose it's possible, but as you pointed out with the oil level, the oil at the bottom of the pan isn't in contact with the crank. The air running alongside the bottom of the car wouldn't cause enough cooling to alter the physical characteristics of the bottom end assembly. Even if the colder ambient temps caused the oil at the bottom of the pan to run a bit colder (as such, drawing more heat from the rod bearings) any meaningful difference would be negated at idle, where the bbq tick is heard.

When the oil is hot or cold? If the oil is at the top of the hash marks when cold, then it will be at the top hole when hot because the oil volume (and therefore the oil level) increases when hot. So regardless if you're talking about the level either hot or cold, the level isn't going to be anything close to overfull where it would affect the engine.

I've ran my oil level to just a little bit above the Add bottom hole, and the engine never sounded any different.

Cold. It's the only time I can actually get a solid reading with 5w20. Then that would wrap back to aeration. The added volume of oil could be preventing the small amount of bubbles from forming. Someone else also commented that adding more oil got rid of their tick, if I recall.

 

[GT Pony]

I suppose it's possible, but as you pointed out with the oil level, the oil at the bottom of the pan isn't in contact with the crank. The air running alongside the bottom of the car wouldn't cause enough cooling to alter the physical characteristics of the bottom end assembly. Even if the colder ambient temps caused the oil at the bottom of the pan to run a bit colder (as such, drawing more heat from the rod bearings) any meaningful difference would be negated at idle, where the bbq tick is heard.

Yes, I agree ... probably not enough to make a thermal difference.

Cold. It's the only time I can actually get a solid reading with 5w20. Then that would wrap back to aeration. The added volume of oil could be preventing the small amount of bubbles from forming. Someone else also commented that adding more oil got rid of their tick, if I recall.

I doubt the engine is that sensitive to oil level as long as it's above the Add hole on the dipstick. I don't see how the oil level being near the Add hole would be low enough to cause the oil pickup to suck air, especially if on level ground and idling (ie, low pump oil flow, so 95% of the oil is in the pan).

 

[Dfeeds]

I doubt the engine is that sensitive to oil level as long as it's above the Add hole on the dipstick. I don't see how the oil level being near the Add hole would be low enough to cause the oil pickup to suck air, especially if on level ground and idling (ie, low pump oil flow, so 95% of the oil is in the pan).

I was actually thinking more about that missing o-ring/baffle that was previously mentioned. If said o-ring is supposed to be located deep in the sump, then the additional oil could cause that particular location to be submerged, preventing any air from being sucked into the system. This would only be possible at idle, but that's the only time anyone is hearing the sound. Without physically seeing the part in question and its location, I can only speculate, but this would be a case of occam's razor.

Adding ceratec would have the same end result. It could also, theoretically, act is a pseudo seal. One of the main reasons why I don't want to use ceratec is because of the few reports that people have found it gunked up in certain areas upon a tear down.

 

[GT Pony]

I was actually thinking more about that missing o-ring/baffle that was previously mentioned. If said o-ring is supposed to be located deep in the sump, then the additional oil could cause that particular location to be submerged, preventing any air from being sucked into the system. This would only be possible at idle, but that's the only time anyone is hearing the sound. Without physically seeing the part in question and its location, I can only speculate, but this would be a case of occam's razor.

Interesting thoughts. I think this could be tested to prove one way or the other. If someone has the tick going on at idle, and if say they were going to change oil that day, why not add a quart and see if the ticking goes away. If the tick is still there, then add another 1/2 to 1 quart. Adding up to two quarts at idle wouldn't hurt anything IMO. If the tick still doesn't go away, then I'd say that theory isn't the cause. Then dump the oil (without even driving the car) for the oil change. All it would cost is a couple quarts of oil, and it could simply be cheap oil just for that short test.

 

[Dfeeds]

Interesting thoughts. I think this could be tested to prove one way or the other. If someone has the tick going on at idle, and if say they were going to change oil that day, why not add a quart and see if the ticking goes away. If the tick is still there, then add another 1/2 to 1 quart. Adding up to two quarts at idle wouldn't hurt anything IMO. If the tick still doesn't go away, then I'd say that theory isn't the cause. Then dump the oil (without even driving the car) for the oil change. All it would cost is a couple quarts of oil, and it could simply be cheap oil just for that test I'd think.

Indeed it can and, in a sense, this has already been tested. It's just ceratec that's being added to full, as opposed to oil. It would fit the common theme of ceratec "instantly" curing the bbq tick. This would then explain why ceratec doesn't work for everyone. The people it doesn't work for may simply not have as full of a sump. However, a proper test would be as you said (with oil, not ceratec). It can even be easily documented. One simply needs to be recording the tick at idle as they fill up the sump with more oil.

Alternatively, if I find myself willing, I could drain out a smidge of oil and see if the tick returns. I was thinking about getting a magnetized drain plug in the near future, so that would be a perfect time to test it.

 

[GT Pony]

Indeed it can and, in a sense, this has already been tested. It's just ceratec that's being added to full, as opposed to oil. It would fit the common theme of ceratec "instantly" curing the bbq tick. This would then explain why ceratec doesn't work for everyone. The people it doesn't work for may simply not have as full of a sump. However, a proper test would be as you said (with oil, not ceratec). It can even be easily documented. One simply needs to be recording the tick at idle as they fill up the sump with more oil.

Alternatively, if I find myself willing, I could drain out a smidge of oil and see if the tick returns. I was thinking about getting a magnetized drain plug in the near future, so that would be a perfect time to test it.

How much Ceratec are you adding? Even if you add two bottles that's only 600cc (about 2/3 qt).

Yeah, the test needs to be done with just oil, because if Ceratec changing the friction level is what's causing the cure, then using Ceratec to change the oil level isn't telling you anything. Condor1970 gets his tick to go away almost instantly with only adding 1/2 a bottle of Ceratec (only 150cc), and I'd bet his oil level isn't changed hardly any in a 10 qt sump.

I bet if someone adds Ceratec on a ticking engine when the oil level is near the Add mark on the dipstick, the ticking will still go away. Maybe Condor1970 has done it that way - ??.

 

[Condor1970]

How much Ceratec are you adding? Even if you add two bottles that's only 600cc (about 2/3 qt).

Yeah, the test needs to be done with just oil, because if Ceratec changing the friction level is what's causing the cure, then using Ceratec to change the oil level isn't telling you anything. Condor1970 gets his tick to go away almost instantly with only adding 1/2 a bottle of Ceratec (only 150cc), and I'd bet his oil level isn't changed hardly any in a 10 qt sump.

I bet if someone adds Ceratec on a ticking engine when the oil level is near the Add mark on the dipstick, the ticking will still go away. Maybe Condor1970 has done it that way - ??.

With 10qts, the level is 1/3 between the two holes on the dipstick. Adding 1/2 bottle of Ceartec takes it up to almost 2/3 between the two holes. The ticking in mine also existed when I filled it to top hole with just 5w20 oil. Oil level made ZERO difference in the tick. Only adding Ceratec does.
I talked to my local mechanic recently about my latest crackpot theory..., he is kind of in agreement with me, that the noise is probably sticky Lash Adjusters at low oil pressure. It can easily be affected by oil viscosity, oil additives, and even the age of the oil as it thins out, and carbon builds up. Whether it's HLA's, cavitation, or big ends, it seems to be no noticeable harm to the engine. So, I'm not too worried about it anymore.

It would be awful nice to get a definitive answer from Ford though.

 

[accel]

Well, I should have said it doesn't cause any abnormal engine noises (ie "affects them", since engine noises is the issue of discussion) ... that's what I was getting at.

Because tick.is associated with oil change and also because of my personal encounter with oil change and tick that I mentioned up the thread I'd look into what may happen to engine internals as a result of the oil change.

Engine start when old oil is completely drained including filter removal step, new oil is just in the oil pan will result in some parts or the engine working without oil pressure for some limited time. If filter was prefilled, there would still be air bubble between the filter and oil pump.

I do know that all engines go through this process, but we discuss coyote in this thread. And if coyote was not having bbq tick, it'd be just like millions of other engines.

So this interim situation cannot be ignored. Some engines are not like millions of others and have some fragile parts due to design.

Those of us who have oil pressure gauge watch it. The presure is not building up immediately after the oil change. It takes _much_ longer than during just your regular engine start. And even when oil pressure starts showing as normail - that just means it reached oil pressure sensor.

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