BBQ Tick After Oil Change...

[Qcman17]

Than I don't see how it could be oil starvation related during an oil change like you said earlier. Millions of cars have oil changes and doesn't seem to hurt or affect them.

I agree if its caused by momentary oil starvation after an oil change that implies to me that something was damaged in those few seconds? If that were the case would it not get worse every time the oil was changed thereafter in a cumulative way?

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[GT Pony]

Because tick.is associated with oil change and also because of my personal encounter with oil change and tick that I mentioned up the thread I'd look into what may happen to engine internals as a result of the oil change.

Engine start when old oil is completely drained including filter removal step, new oil is just in the oil pan will result in some parts or the engine working without oil pressure for some limited time. If filter was prefilled, there would still be air bubble between the filter and oil pump.

I do know that all engines go through this process, but we discuss coyote in this thread. And if coyote was not having bbq tick, it'd be just like millions of other engines.

So this interim situation cannot be ignored. Some engines are not like millions of others and have some fragile parts due to design.

Those of us who have oil pressure gauge watch it. The presure is not building up immediately after the oil change. It takes _much_ longer than during just your regular engine start. And even when oil pressure starts showing as normail - that just means it reached oil pressure sensor.

If you study lubrication (the technical term is "tribology") you'll find that oil pressure is not needed to lubricate parts. Oil pressure is just what's produced when the oil pump forces oil to be delivered to parts through restrictive passages.

What I'm saying is millions of vehicles get the oil changed, and in all those instances there is still a film of oil on all the parts which provides lubrication during the short time it takes to build up oil pressure - which is the act of supplying new oil to all the parts that are pump feed.

I get what you're saying, but my point was that pretty much every vehicle in existent goes through a short period of time (3~5 seconds) to build up the oil pressure after an oil change has been done, and it doesn't seem to affect other vehicles, so I'm concluding in my mind that this is not the cause of a continuous BBQ ticking noise after an oil change. Now if the engine "ticked" or made some other abnormal noises until the oil pressure was fully established, then went away and sounded normal again, then that scenario would be related to low oil pressure.

As I've mentioned many times in these ticking threads, it seems pretty evident in most cases that a change in the friction level of the oil causes the tick to either be there or not. Just the case of Condor1970 adding only a 1/2 bottle (150 cc) of Ceratec to 10 qts if oil almost instantly caused his tick to stop. 150 cc (0.16 qt) is only 1.5% concentration when added to 10 qts.

 

[Condor1970]

Also remember, it is an electric oil gage. It takes a couple seconds for it to even power up properly as the car starts. Even though the engine is rotating and pumping oil, it takes time for the computer to boot and start sending a proper signal to the gauge as well.
The engine being thoroughly coated with oil already, is not being oil starved on startup nearly as much as you might think it is.

 

[Rapid Red]

Anyone think it might be the "synthetic" ?

A story, FWIW
99 truck new, after break in, full synthetic replaced the factory oil. @ idle could hear the lifters, roller motor.


Not liking that I dumped the oil, changed the brand of full synthetic, same. About 4 brands, later, Castrol, Penn, cannot remember the third one. The 4th Mobil 1, was quieter than the other 3.

Believing the hype full synthetic, continued to use the Mobil1, to this day, 150k, sometimes can hear some lifter noise. Never got any louder just not silent as hyd lifters are.

So as with roller rockers, that are noisy, compared to stock rockers. Roller lifters, I would think can also make some noise, as I found with the truck. Could be the mechanical clearances of the rollers from one to the other.

This 20w deal bothers me some, I know that the crank, rods and all have tighter clearances that demand, the 20w. I must go with that, bumping the viscosity, think i will stand on the side line and watch that game.

So what is the factory oil, not full synthetic? Why, and is it causing, what I have heard in some post ?

The question then becomes and must be asked. What is the point of full synthetic, extend the oil change cycle 1 - 2 thousand miles. Driver worried the motor is falling apart, and really is not?

Want silent motor, valve train, go back the original oil, all good, Know that a machine makes noises, that said the common denominator here is full synthetic & oil change....

Cheers,
Pep

 

[GT Pony]

Anyone think it might be the "synthetic" ?

A story, FWIW
99 truck new, after break in, full synthetic replaced the factory oil. @ idle could hear the lifters, roller motor.

Not liking that I dumped the oil, changed the brand of full synthetic, same. About 4 brands, later, Castrol, Penn, cannot remember the third one. The 4th Mobil 1, was quieter than the other 3.

Believing the hype full synthetic, continued to use the Mobil1, to this day, 150k, sometimes can hear some lifter noise. Never got any louder just not silent as hyd lifters are.

So as with roller rockers, that are noisy, compared to stock rockers. Roller lifters, I would think can also make some noise, as I found with the truck. Could be the mechanical clearances of the rollers from one to the other.

This 20w deal bothers me some, I know that the crank, rods and all have tighter clearances that demand, the 20w. I must go with that, bumping the viscosity, think i will stand on the side line and watch that game.

So what is the factory oil, not full synthetic? Why, and is it causing, what I have heard in some post ?

The question then becomes and must be asked. What is the point of full synthetic, extend the oil change cycle 1 - 2 thousand miles. Driver worried the motor is falling apart, and really is not?

Want silent motor, valve train, go back the original oil, all good, Know that a machine makes noises, that said the common denominator here is full synthetic & oil change....

Cheers,
Pep

I've heard a lot of guys say Mobil 1 full synthetic makes their engine sound a bit more noisy. Different oils will make engines sound more quiet or more noisy compared to other oils, but IMO it's not really related to the oil being full synthetic or not.

In my 2015 GT, the engine sounded a bit more noisy (valve train noise) with the Motorcraft 5W-20 (factory fill and on first oil change) than it does with Valvoline Advanced full synthetic 5W-30. Those are the only two oils I've tried in the GT. Keep in mind that my GT does not have the BBQ tick, so switching oils didn't cure that because I never had it.

On my 2005 Tacoma 4.0L V6, I've used Mobil 1 5W-30 for the first 50K miles, then also switched to Valvoline Advanced full synthetic 5W-30, and that engine also sounds a bit more quiet in the valve train area. Just what I've experienced, and I listen to my engines very carefully all the time.

 

[Rapid Red]

I've heard a lot of guys say Mobil 1 full synthetic makes their engine sound a bit more noisy. Different oils will make engines sound more quiet or more noisy compared to other oils, but IMO it's not really related to the oil being full synthetic or not.

In my 2015 GT, the engine sounded a bit more noisy (valve train noise) with the Motorcraft 5W-20 (factory fill and on first oil change) than it does with Valvoline Advanced full synthetic 5W-30. Those are the only two oils I've tried in the GT. Keep in mind that my GT does not have the BBQ tick, so switching oils didn't cure that because I never had it.

On my 2005 Tacoma 4.0L V6, I've used Mobil 1 5W-30 for the first 50K miles, then also switched to Valvoline Advanced full synthetic 5W-30, and that engine also sounds a bit more quiet in the valve train area. Just what I've experienced, and I listen to my engines very carefully all the time.

Thanks will keep that in mind, the Valvoline. When I say full synthetic might be the problem you agree, as it was intended.

The brand being the problem, all full synthetics are not the same. Found that myself "4 brands, later".

That said what's the logic in upping the viscosity? Seeing oil pressure increase with that, 10W could be minimal and not noticed, just curious.

Pep

 

[GT Pony]

Thanks will keep that in mind, the Valvoline. When I say full synthetic might be the problem you agree, as it was intended.

The brand being the problem, all full synthetics are not the same. Found that myself "4 brands, later".

I never said engine noise was caused by the oil just being full synthetic ... but rather the brand used can have an effect on engine noise.

That probably holds true with conventional (aka: dino) and semi-synthetic oils too It's because of the oil formulation (additives) differences between brands, and it's also true that viscosity can vary in it's rated grade. In other words, some 5W-20 oils are thicker or thinner than other 5W-20 oils. So if you ran 5W-20 Oil #1, it could be a little thicker at the same temperature compared to 5w-20 Oil #2.

Keep in mind every engine is different, so it's possible that switching oil brands and viscosity might have no effect on Engine #1, but will have a noticeable effect on Engine #2. Just need to find an oil that makes you happy.

That said what's the logic in upping the viscosity? Seeing oil pressure increase with that, 10W could be minimal and not noticed, just curious.

Pep

I wanted a little more viscosity, which might have helped quiet down the engine also. Plus 5W-30 will protect the moving parts better if I really push the engine.

 

[Rapid Red]

I never said engine noise was caused by the oil just being full synthetic ... but rather the brand used can have an effect on engine noise.
.

That sounds exactly like what I said, the brand and its additives being the key ... I did not stutter.

I never said engine noise was caused by the oil just being full synthetic ... but rather the brand used can have an effect on engine noise.

That probably holds true with conventional (aka: dino) and semi-synthetic oils too It's because of the oil formulation (additives) differences between brands, and it's also true that viscosity can vary in it's rated grade. In other words, some 5W-20 oils are thicker or thinner than other 5W-20 oils. So if you ran 5W-20 Oil #1, it could be a little thicker at the same temperature compared to 5w-20 Oil #2.

Keep in mind every engine is different, so it's possible that switching oil brands and viscosity might have no effect on Engine #1, but will have a noticeable effect on Engine #2. Just need to find an oil that makes you happy.

Oil does not make me happy, it keeps the motor happy...... all this in a moot point. Reason I was talking about valve train noises, Coyote motor does not have a valve train.... OHC

That was my mistake brain storming the engine noise, & a possible cause.
"5W-30 will protect the moving parts better" you do not know that, makes you happy.


Done
Pep

 

[barron64]

Currently at approx. 8K miles on current oil change running Mobile 1, 10w-30 + 1 bottle of Ceratec. Currently engine is very quiet. It has been a long time since I heard the “tick”. However, an oil change is due shortly and I will bet that quiet will disappear when the oil is changed. We will see.
The 5.0 coyote engine uses hydraulic lash adjusters and roller followers. My thought is that the low oil pressure this engine has at idle, 15psi for mine when hot, might be slightly starving one of those lash adjusters at the far end of an oil gallery. With the HLA not fully pumped up, you get a random tick. Why Ceratec and aged oil helps to quiet the tick is a good question.

 

[Condor1970]

Currently at approx. 8K miles on current oil change running Mobile 1, 10w-30 + 1 bottle of Ceratec. Currently engine is very quiet. It has been a long time since I heard the “tick”. However, an oil change is due shortly and I will bet that quiet will disappear when the oil is changed. We will see.
The 5.0 coyote engine uses hydraulic lash adjusters and roller followers. My thought is that the low oil pressure this engine has at idle, 15psi for mine when hot, might be slightly starving one of those lash adjusters at the far end of an oil gallery. With the HLA not fully pumped up, you get a random tick. Why Ceratec and aged oil helps to quiet the tick is a good question.

My guess is that first, we do know that viscosity does have an affect on HLA operation. The oil passages in the HLA's are pretty tiny. It's possible thinner broken down oil as it ages will penetrate and pressurize better. Just like when I notice the tick is less after running the engine hard and heating up the oil. Just a guess though...
I think you're right about it being further away. The most common is cylinder #3. When they pull the ignition on that cylinder, the ticking tends to stop in most of these engines. I have a sneaky suspicion the oil flow to that region may be generally the lowest as a commonality in block design.

 

[GT Pony]

Reason I was talking about valve train noises, Coyote motor does not have a valve train.... OHC

I think you need to study up on what a valve train really is. A valve train does not require push rods to be a valve train.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valvetrain

"5W-30 will protect the moving parts better" you do not know that, makes you happy.

If you studied tribology and learned what it says about lubrication and the correlation between viscosity and protection of moving parts, then you'd understand my statement. There's a ton of info on the 'net about it.

 

[GT Pony]

My thought is that the low oil pressure this engine has at idle, 15psi for mine when hot, might be slightly starving one of those lash adjusters at the far end of an oil gallery. With the HLA not fully pumped up, you get a random tick. Why Ceratec and aged oil helps to quiet the tick is a good question.

Too bad there wasn't a way - but maybe there is on 2018+ Coyotes with the ECU controlled oil pump - to somehow increase the oil pressure while the engine is ticking at a constant engine RPM. If the ticking suddenly went away when holding RPM constant, then it certainly could be said it was low oil pressure related.

 

[cib24]

Castrol Magnatec 5W-20 E, spec WSS-M2C948-B is the default oil used at Ford dealers and what is recommended by auto parts stores for the 5.0L Mustang and Ecoboost in the UK. No ticking issues over here.

Magnatec apparently makes the engine run quieter at idle as well.

Motorcraft brand is not really used or sold over here.

 

[Chris5.0coyote]

^^^As I said guys, as time has gone on from thinking it was piston slap (NO), to big ends colliding (maybe), to pump issues (NO), to oil cavitation (maybe), to finally realizing it is directly in response to oil pressure at lower RPM. My guess is lazy HLA's at low pressure with small gaps to the rocker arm. But whatever the case, it really doesn't seem to affect the longevity or reliability of the engine.

Yeah your right I’ve beat my car for 30k miles since having the tick at 1600 miles and it doesn’t burn oil it hasn’t blown up it hasn’t had anything crazy happen to the motor only thing is that the trans is acting up I think a cincro cause when I shift hard from second to third it’s like a grinding noise that happens but it goes in fine no restriction just makes the grinding noise he’ll anoyying

 

[Condor1970]

Yeah your right I’ve beat my car for 30k miles since having the tick at 1600 miles and it doesn’t burn oil it hasn’t blown up it hasn’t had anything crazy happen to the motor only thing is that the trans is acting up I think a cincro cause when I shift hard from second to third it’s like a grinding noise that happens but it goes in fine no restriction just makes the grinding noise he’ll anoyying

We'll, I have some roughness in shifting as well, but thankfully no grinding. Anyway, I've heard the Motul DCTF is like magic for these 82's. My plan is to do the tranny and diff at 25k with Motul synthetic. Everyone on here that has used it swears by it. Motul is also less expensive than Synchroshift II.

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