Why not a 5.9L Coyote?

[Hack]

The re-released 6.4 liter V8 Durango sold out very quickly and there's a big backlog of orders. Dodge can't sell the new EV Charger. They are sitting on dealer lots unsold for over a year, many of them. The 6 cylinder turbo versions aren't doing well either. The best thing car manufacturers can do is listen to the customer and build what their customers want.

We are all here on a website discussing a car that can come with a V8. I personally do not go on any websites to talk about EVs, because mostly they are not interesting to me.

Predicting the future years down the road is tough. Building and selling what people want right now isn't nearly as difficult. Car companies can all see what sells right now and what doesn't.

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[engineermike]

Brian Wolfe hit the nail on the head in one of his interviews. He said the oems/govt went all-in on electric too soon. The only practical solution currently is plug-in hybrids. They check all the boxes but were more-or-less skipped over in the premature rush to electric.

Since most of your driving is commuting near home they function as electric cars most of the time. But when you need extra power or range you have a gas engine. You also wouldn’t need public charging stations and the inconvenience caused by that situation.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

Isn't someone working on a new godzilla cylinder head? I wouldn't mind trying one of these engines.

 

[zackmd1]

Isn't someone working on a new godzilla cylinder head? I wouldn't mind trying one of these engines.

That would be great as long as it actually had a performance benefit! The current cnc ported heads don’t do much for how much they cost…

 

[zackmd1]

Brian Wolfe hit the nail on the head in one of his interviews. He said the oems/govt went all-in on electric too soon. The only practical solution currently is plug-in hybrids. They check all the boxes but were more-or-less skipped over in the premature rush to electric.

Since most of your driving is commuting near home they function as electric cars most of the time. But when you need extra power or range you have a gas engine. You also wouldn’t need public charging stations and the inconvenience caused by that situation.

Depends on the type of hybrid we are talking about… There is one that is firmly rooted in the past with little benefits for everyday use and one that can support future advances.

Most current plug ins simply slap an electric motor between the engine and transmission. Adds complexity and typically have very short EV only ranges and reduced power while in EV mode. The other is an EREV where the platform is EV and the gas engine is just there to power a generator, no mechanical connection to the wheels. These have much longer EV only ranges and provide the benefits of both. And it sets up the automaker for a future transition to EV only once infrastructure and battery tech catch up.

An AWD EREV Mustang with a 4.0L coyote and 800hp would be fun…. Simplify the coyote, drop displacement, and have a fun control system that would allow for simulated shifts or something…

 

[80FoxCoupe]

That would be great as long as it actually had a performance benefit! The current cnc ported heads don’t do much for how much they cost…

I'm almost certain in one of the Steve Morris vids, he said someone is working on it more info later.

 

[engineermike]

@zackmd1 even with a short ev-only range and reduced power, the vast majority of driving is done close to home and at light load so even in that case accomplishes the end-goals of both sides.

 

[robvas]

The Dark Horse is already a couple gallons of gas away from 4,000lbs. You want to add another 3-400lbs of battery and electric motor to that? And probably another $10,000?

Also, where does it go? It's not like the E-Ray where you have a frunk to put that stuff.

 

[zackmd1]

The Dark Horse is already a couple gallons of gas away from 4,000lbs. You want to add another 3-400lbs of battery and electric motor to that? And probably another $10,000?

Also, where does it go? It's not like the E-Ray where you have a frunk to put that stuff.

A complete supercharger system including heat exchangers adds about 150-200lbs to a vehicle… The hybrid system in the E-Ray adds about 200-300lbs so not a drastic difference… And there is definitely room to fit a ~15kwh battery pack and Ford had a patent not to long ago for dual electric motors mounted to the oil pan of a coyote…

 

[robvas]

It's up to 200lbs now?

Also the e ray is 400lbs heavier than the stingray and costs $40,000 more

Sure, there are other differences but come on. Who's going to take even a $30k and 300lb increase?

 

[engineermike]

It's up to 200lbs now?

Every time I check, these superchargers get heavier.

 

[Hack]

I think there's a market for hybrids and plug in hybrids, but they can be purchased now. If everyone preferred them that would be all you see on the roads. Just like EVs. I personally would buy something like a Fiesta if I wanted to avoid using energy as much as possible. Something small, cheap and simple. I wouldn't pay for a hybrid system to be added in. But cars like the Fiesta really never sold well here in the US.

There are a lot of people who pretend they care about this stuff, but they buy a big pickup or SUV, because that's what they actually want.

 

[Rick#7]

My ex had a Prius when I met her, a 2009 model I think. The ICE was connected only to a generator. The power from that ran a motor that took the place of a transmission, which also served to recharge the battery pack in braking or decelerating, which they called regenerative braking. It got good mpg compared to a pure ICE car, but would only go about 20 mph on pure EV power, with a range of 10-15 miles, before the ICE would kick in to provide power. It's a decent system for city driving with lots of stop and go. The frequent stopping keeps the battery pack charged up which lets you use pure EV to pull from a stop and get up to 15-20 mph to reach the next stoplight. It would manage about 40 mpg in the city. The way my ex drove it, she typically got 30-35 mpg. In normal combined city/hwy driving, I'm convinced it only got better mpg than a comparable ICE car because it had a weak 76hp engine running an Atkinson cycle, which is inherently more efficient than a normal performance tuned 4 stroke, but notoriously weak on torque. The combined power of the hybrid drivetrain was only 110 HP. I'm pretty sure if you compared it to a Prius sized car, without the weight of all the EV stuff, and replaced the Atkinson engine with a small 110 HP DOHC high compression 4 cyl, you'd get very similar mpg. I think that's why there was a push to go full EV, the added expense, weight, and complexity of hybrid systems offset any real world gains in mpg. Logically, it makes sense to ease the consumer market into it, going with hybrid, then plug-in hybrid, before transitioning to full EV, giving the market time to catch up with infrastructure and consumer sentiment. In application, hybrids just don't make enough difference when you consider the big picture.

I'm not giving up on ICE though. I still think there's a chance someone will invent a gasoline substitute that will run any existing gasoline engine and have only H2O as the exhaust. (Hey, I can dream! LOL)

 

[zackmd1]

I truly do think it’s funny how much people on this site hate anything related to electrification.... Separate the politics from the technology... It can be used as a power adder and it has a multitude of mechanical and performance benefits over a standard AWD system.

Anyways... Back on topic.... The GT3 5.4L would be a fun addition to the road going mustang lineup. I believe I read somewhere that the Coyote is capable of 5.8L but that's pushing it to the bleeding edge.

 

[zackmd1]

My ex had a Prius when I met her, a 2009 model I think. The ICE was connected only to a generator. The power from that ran a motor that took the place of a transmission, which also served to recharge the battery pack in braking or decelerating, which they called regenerative braking. It got good mpg compared to a pure ICE car, but would only go about 20 mph on pure EV power, with a range of 10-15 miles, before the ICE would kick in to provide power. It's a decent system for city driving with lots of stop and go. The frequent stopping keeps the battery pack charged up which lets you use pure EV to pull from a stop and get up to 15-20 mph to reach the next stoplight. It would manage about 40 mpg in the city. The way my ex drove it, she typically got 30-35 mpg. In normal combined city/hwy driving, I'm convinced it only got better mpg than a comparable ICE car because it had a weak 76hp engine running an Atkinson cycle, which is inherently more efficient than a normal performance tuned 4 stroke, but notoriously weak on torque. The combined power of the hybrid drivetrain was only 110 HP. I'm pretty sure if you compared it to a Prius sized car, without the weight of all the EV stuff, and replaced the Atkinson engine with a small 110 HP DOHC high compression 4 cyl, you'd get very similar mpg. I think that's why there was a push to go full EV, the added expense, weight, and complexity of hybrid systems offset any real world gains in mpg. Logically, it makes sense to ease the consumer market into it, going with hybrid, then plug-in hybrid, before transitioning to full EV, giving the market time to catch up with infrastructure and consumer sentiment. In application, hybrids just don't make enough difference when you consider the big picture.

I'm not giving up on ICE though. I still think there's a chance someone will invent a gasoline substitute that will run any existing gasoline engine and have only H2O as the exhaust. (Hey, I can dream! LOL)

See that's were EREVs come in... What you just described is the old way of doing a hybrid which is why IMHO they are not very popular.... Loads of compromises for not much benefit. The Prius engine always had a mechanical connection to the wheels, it never just operated as a generator. The electric motor in the Prius is sandwiched between the engine and transmission similar to where a torque converter would reside.

EREVs on the other hand get you the benefits of a full EV drivetrain (instant torque, powertrain flexibility for RWD, FWD, AWD) while providing a decent EV only range with full power (typically 100mi+) while still allowing you to fill up at a gas station.

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