Why DIDN'T you get a camaro?

[raptor17GT]

because they don't make a RHD version

 

[Decible]

Im torn between the 2020 Mustang GT and the 2020 Camaro SS both in A10 variants. And both seem to be very close in many aspects. I plan on asking this question on a camaro forum, but the other way around. But Im curious about those that shopped both seriously and chose the Mustang in the end. Lets not use the "visibility" argument though. I've driven both extensively and that isnt a problem in the camaro, at least not for me. What else prevented you from getting the camaro? Was it price, availability or was it options?? Lets have a real conversation without a flame war starting. Thanks.

I shopped the Mustang, Camaro, and the Challenger 6.4L. Here was my assessment. I’m not going to Lie I am a GM guy, the low end on the LT is awesome!! BUT it has blind spots that can get you killed. It’s awful!! Plus the 3ss interior is nicely laid out but it feels Cheap.

Callenger SRT8 6.4 - It has the nicest interior quality of the 3. The 8 speed is butter but the damn thing weighs as much as a F250. The 6.4 is quick and for a heavy car it’s moves really well but it is not agile at all. It feels heavy in the turns.

2020 Mustang 401a - Second nicest interior, much lighter that the Dodge, a little lighter than the Camaro. No blind spots, trans is seamless, the flathead Ford firing order sounds SO good. And it’s the lightest of the 3. Handles the curves nicely and has nice straight line performance. Does come on higher in the rpm range than the other 2 but it’s a much smaller CID than the other two so that’s expected

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

I don't own a Camaro.

I also come from an engineering background, I worked in aerospace and not automotive. You're dismissing the engineering & testing that goes into the overall package of a special edition car like the GT500 or ZL1.

Many owners who "build" their car end up with a vehicle that is either out of balance, handles poorly or so powerful it just overwhelms the rest of the vehicles systems.

This is why I largely stuck with parts made by suppliers that actually work with the OEM (FP, Roush & RTR) and avoid the aftermarket at all costs (between my car and truck I have 4 aftermarket parts). Real life isn't like Gran Turismo where you can just throw parts at your car without consequences.

I am a mechanical engineer - and I agree with this post - particularly the bolded portions. The GT500 had Billy Johnson as the development driver. No one here, at Steeda, or any of the other aftermarket companies has that kind of pedigree. The ZL1 was honed at the Nurburgring; GM took ZL1s there 6 separate times to fine tune it.

I'm sure there are certain parts that can be bolted onto a GT (or SS, or any car with an aftermarket following) to improve certain aspects, as a way to button certain things up (i.e., Steeda stop the hop kits), per se, but to try to overhaul the entire suspension and chassis by throwing aftermarket parts at it isn't a prudent approach IMO.

 

[RYGO]

I am a mechanical engineer - and I agree with this post - particularly the bolded portions. The GT500 had Billy Johnson as the development driver. No one here, at Steeda, or any of the other aftermarket companies has that kind of pedigree. The ZL1 was honed at the Nurburgring; GM took ZL1s there 6 separate times to fine tune it.

I'm sure there are certain parts that can be bolted onto a GT (or SS, or any car with an aftermarket following) to improve certain aspects, as a way to button certain things up (i.e., Steeda stop the hop kits), per se, but to try to overhaul the entire suspension and chassis by throwing aftermarket parts at it isn't a prudent approach IMO.

Again Ford makes many of the parts that can be upgraded and all parts off the shelby can be used. So the aftermarket thing has gotten taken out of context. Furthermore, do you really think a factory zl1 and factory shelby are as good as they can be stock?? Theres many things they cannot do and are limited from the factory. Once again, a Mustang is a mustang. A Shelby Gt500 is a mustang. Can be built to be gas getter or predator. You can use any of the parts from a shelby. Theres really not that much to it. Unless, you are trying to retro mod. Im working through the posts to see why Ford is hiding the magneride option. Most 18+ GTs are prewired for it. Would that be a backyard mod? Or a self installed factory upgrade?

 

[RYGO]

OK for an old retired guy, I hope. My first track day ever I split the difference in lap times between two guys sharing a 5th gen SS Camaro. Not as fast as the fast guy but clearly faster than his co-driver (the laps were being officially timed).

Sorry for the watermarks on the track pics; they were all I was ever able to get. There's a sneak-peek pic in my sig, too.

Thats bad to the bone!

 

[shogun32]

Im working through the posts to see why Ford is hiding the magneride option. Most 18+ GTs are prewired for it. Would that be a backyard mod? Or a self installed factory upgrade?

you'll want to get with @TeeLew and his thread

 

[RYGO]

you'll want to get with @TeeLew and his thread

Been filtering through the thread. Love it.

 

[Ratchet27]

Because I wanted to be able to see. And prefer not to have a mullet.

 

[TeeLew]

you'll want to get with @TeeLew and his thread

I wish I had a lot to add. I'm gaining on the Magneride end, but I'm not an authority. Assuming the chassis wiring is in place, it wouldn't be a big deal. There are 4 suspension travel sensors, 4 dampers, 1 dash switch and the controller to connect. I'm assuming that the CAN data stream is being sent to the damper controller connector even in non-Mag cars, but I don't know this.

Billy did do the Shelby damper testing. I had a conversation with him about it a year ago (He's been an acquaintance for ~15 years) and he was really pleased with how it had all turned out. He did not do any of the Mustang tuning.

This in no way means that the factory tuning is some sort of end-all/be-all. It's a compromise. Ford wants to produce a good, inexpensive GT car which is meant for the street, but is reasonably competent when at the track. As you go up the product line, the relative track competence increases while the street manners decline.

There are any number of options which will improve the track abilities of the Mustang. Some have little effect on ride or NVH and others are more apparent. Yes, it is entirely possible take a car which handles reasonably well stock land hurt it. It's also possible to make the car handle better with not much difference in street driving. The Magneride gives you the option of increasing overall response/damping and improving balance without hurting normal driving. It's difficult to strike that same balance with a passive damper.

 

[IamCDNJosh]

Again Ford makes many of the parts that can be upgraded and all parts off the shelby can be used. So the aftermarket thing has gotten taken out of context. Furthermore, do you really think a factory zl1 and factory shelby are as good as they can be stock?? Theres many things they cannot do and are limited from the factory. Once again, a Mustang is a mustang. A Shelby Gt500 is a mustang. Can be built to be gas getter or predator. You can use any of the parts from a shelby. Theres really not that much to it. Unless, you are trying to retro mod. Im working through the posts to see why Ford is hiding the magneride option. Most 18+ GTs are prewired for it. Would that be a backyard mod? Or a self installed factory upgrade?

My approach to the GT500 would be identical to my 911 when I get it. Leave well enough alone in this case, I'm not smarter than the engineers at Ford Performance or Porsche.

Furthermore I'm not a huge fan of the Shelby American builds, yes they use high quality parts but I question how well it all works together. That and on a 100k+ mustang I'd want something better than either the MT-82 or A10. Personally I'd like a GT500 with the DCT.

To address your comment on the harness for magnaride, ford isn't hiding anything here, simply they're using the same harness to reduce how many part numbers are used for harnesses. Likely costs them less to have a single harness made for all cars rather than a harness for each variant.

I'm not saying you shouldn't modify a car, more that it's easy to go wrong if you start modding for the sake of modding (backyard modding). You end up with a whack-a-mole approach (modding to fix issues that other mods have created) rather than looking at the car as a whole.

With exception of the FP short shifter I've yet to install, my car is finished. Not only that, it's reliable, not finikey whatsoever and remains balanced.

My final point is there was a member that posted here recently complaining about how his car handled after installing a number of suspension mods. The issue here is many of the components were from different manufacturers and never were designed to work together. (Personally I just installed FP X springs on my PP car).

Anyways,.if you haven't noticed from the other engineers in this thread, we look at things differently.

 

[TeeLew]

My approach to the GT500 would be identical to my 911 when I get it. Leave well enough alone in this case, I'm not smarter than the engineers at Ford Performance or Porsche.

Anyways,.if you haven't noticed from the other engineers in this thread, we look at things differently.

1. I'll do the Pepsi Challenge with any Ford or Porsche engineer there is. Generally speaking, I'm better than they are, have fewer corporate limitations and, most importantly, I know which compromises I'm willing to make. Even if they had a couple dozen Adrian Newey's running around, they have a different end product in mind than I want.

2. Are you speaking for me as well? Because I don't agree with your premise.

 

[Adamone92]

To be fair, accountant have as much (if not more) to do with the final product as the engineers. If I had an unlimited budget and no rules to follow, the MikMobile (Trademark held by MikCorp Automotive) would be the greatest car ever built.

Id buy it.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

I don't own a Camaro.

I also come from an engineering background, I worked in aerospace and not automotive. You're dismissing the engineering & testing that goes into the overall package of a special edition car like the GT500 or ZL1.

Many owners who "build" their car end up with a vehicle that is either out of balance, handles poorly or so powerful it just overwhelms the rest of the vehicles systems.

This is why I largely stuck with parts made by suppliers that actually work with the OEM (FP, Roush & RTR) and avoid the aftermarket at all costs (between my car and truck I have 4 aftermarket parts). Real life isn't like Gran Turismo where you can just throw parts at your car without consequences.

I disagree. I think most people are smart enough to upgrade all systems when modding. Your roush supercharger is a poor performer compared to other kits out there for the money spent. Once you go down the rabbit hole you should be prepared to spend money and upgrade everything. You understand all the other companies have engineers working for them also? It’s not like wipple or pro chargers were thought up by some Billybob and sold out of back woods garages.

 

[IrishStallion]

I’m buying one! F it.

 

[Andrew@Lethal]

Lack of visibility.