Voodoo Theory

[Trackaholic]

Clearly it is possible to make significant power out of a roughly 5.0 L engine.

However, when you start getting to 100 HP/L you are talking high RPM, which is expensive (requires lightweight materials and optimized design) and has negative tradeoffs with respect to fuel economy (high revs increase friction) and longevity (potential for more wear).

That Aluminator engine looks fantastic, but is over 2X the cost of the standard engine (roughly $16,000 compared to $7,300). That is a significant amount to dedicate to the engine alone (although I would be thrilled if they did). Furthermore, the warranty on that motor is only 2/24 compared to 5/60 for what is offered in the car from the factory (to be fair, even the standard motor is only 2/24 when purchased as a crate engine).

In any event, while I would love to see 500 HP out of the engine, I'm not convinced that Ford invest that much money into the engine. If we assume the standard GT comes with something around 450, I'd guess the GT350 would be 480 or so (lets say between 470 and 490).

-T

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[lil=john]

Clearly it is possible to make significant power out of a roughly 5.0 L engine.

However, when you start getting to 100 HP/L you are talking high RPM, which is expensive (requires lightweight materials and optimized design) and has negative tradeoffs with respect to fuel economy (high revs increase friction) and longevity (potential for more wear).

That Aluminator engine looks fantastic, but is over 2X the cost of the standard engine (roughly $16,000 compared to $7,300). That is a significant amount to dedicate to the engine alone (although I would be thrilled if they did). Furthermore, the warranty on that motor is only 2/24 compared to 5/60 for what is offered in the car from the factory (to be fair, even the standard motor is only 2/24 when purchased as a crate engine).

In any event, while I would love to see 500 HP out of the engine, I'm not convinced that Ford invest that much money into the engine. If we assume the standard GT comes with something around 450, I'd guess the GT350 would be 480 or so (lets say between 470 and 490).

-T

I agree..But will Ford actually spend big bucks on a engine designed for a limited run? So I don't think were going to see a Voodoo engine. My bet would be on a improved Trinity engine supporting TIVCT.

 

[nametoshowothers]

Clearly it is possible to make significant power out of a roughly 5.0 L engine.

However, when you start getting to 100 HP/L you are talking high RPM, which is expensive (requires lightweight materials and optimized design) and has negative tradeoffs with respect to fuel economy (high revs increase friction) and longevity (potential for more wear).

That Aluminator engine looks fantastic, but is over 2X the cost of the standard engine (roughly $16,000 compared to $7,300). That is a significant amount to dedicate to the engine alone (although I would be thrilled if they did). Furthermore, the warranty on that motor is only 2/24 compared to 5/60 for what is offered in the car from the factory (to be fair, even the standard motor is only 2/24 when purchased as a crate engine).

In any event, while I would love to see 500 HP out of the engine, I'm not convinced that Ford invest that much money into the engine. If we assume the standard GT comes with something around 450, I'd guess the GT350 would be 480 or so (lets say between 470 and 490).

-T

Good points but ford has sold the gt500 for under 50k ( my 2011) with an engine that is around $25k as a crate.

 

[Jarstang]

I agree..But will Ford actually spend big bucks on a engine designed for a limited run? So I don't think were going to see a Voodoo engine. My bet would be on a improved Trinity engine supporting TIVCT.

The engine codenamed Voodoo is real, its displacement has been mentioned here, and the Trinity engine, improved or otherwise, will not make it into the S550. Trust me on this.

 

[Trackaholic]

Good points but ford has sold the gt500 for under 50k ( my 2011) with an engine that is around $25k as a crate.

I thought the gt500 was more expensive than that, but you make a good point. I didn't realize that engine was so expensive. Don't you go getting my hopes up!

-T

 

[Trackaholic]

I agree..But will Ford actually spend big bucks on a engine designed for a limited run? So I don't think were going to see a Voodoo engine. My bet would be on a improved Trinity engine supporting TIVCT.

I think trinity is done. They would sooner S/C the coyote than go with trinity IMO. But that will be for the gt500. I think the gt350 will be naturally aspirated.

-T

 

[Grimace427]

I thought the gt500 was more expensive than that, but you make a good point. I didn't realize that engine was so expensive. Don't you go getting my hopes up!

-T

The price of the engine in the Ford Racing catalog isn't the price Ford pays to put it into their production cars.

 

[Pablo GT350]

The engine codenamed Voodoo is real, its displacement has been mentioned here, and the Trinity engine, improved or otherwise, will not make it into the S550. Trust me on this.

So we know Voodoo is real. Do we know for a fact it will be the GT350 engine?

Or is the only thing left to confirm is if the GT350 Voodoo is FPC?

 

[Trackaholic]

The price of the engine in the Ford Racing catalog isn't the price Ford pays to put it into their production cars.

I realize that but it might indicate some of cost difference. Of course I'm sure the pricing is also indicative of the performance relative to the rest of the engines in the lineup and to the competition. I suspect that adding the supercharger is still more expensive than forged pistons fancy conn rods and a hot cam. I think the point still holds even if fords cost differential isn't as significant as the catalog price differential.

-T

 

[on d bit]

For those who believe Ford will put out a 500rwhp 5.0 n/a in a $50k package are crazy.

It is clearly not easy/cheap to do in a mass produced/regulated market otherwise their would be tons of on the market. Those that have are in the $100k price range and above and even those players are dropping L's and adding twins as it is far easier, less expensive and even lighter weight.
6.2 n/a - 5.5 tt
5.0 n/a - 4.4 tt
4.2 n/a - 4.0 tt

That experiment did not last long.:shrug:

 

[Pablo GT350]

Yes you are the only sane one here.
Despite all the evidence you say it can't be done. Might as well end the discussion.

By the way, Manufacturers quote crank hp, not wheel. The rest of us here have been talking crank hp.

And Car and Driver must be the craziest of all, because in the new issue 25 cars worth waiting for they are still saying flat plane crank voodoo producing 550hp starting at $50,000.

 

[NRMStand]

For those who believe Ford will put out a 500rwhp 5.0 n/a in a $50k package are crazy.

It is clearly not easy/cheap to do in a mass produced/regulated market otherwise their would be tons of on the market. Those that have are in the $100k price range and above and even those players are dropping L's and adding twins as it is far easier, less expensive and even lighter weight.
6.2 n/a - 5.5 tt
5.0 n/a - 4.4 tt
4.2 n/a - 4.0 tt

That experiment did not last long.:shrug:

I've read all your posts and still don't know what you think we will see, just that you seem to doubt that basically anything that has not been done before with the Mustang is now possible with the S550.

Please tell us then what powertrain do you think we will see in the GT350? Engine, displacement, hp, FI/NA?

 

[on d bit]

I believe it will be about 550-570 crank horsepower either with forced induction 5.0/5.2 or more cubes(5.5, maybe 6.2) and be n/a. I believe it's too pricey to get this power into a 5.0 n/a and still pass all regs.

I think it will weigh in between 3600-3700lbs and corner and brake like a new 911. 1/4 mile(11.5 @ 125) should be on par with the 13 Shelby but won't keep up deep in triple digits. But having said this the new Shelby will destroy the 13 svt on any road course.

 

[on d bit]

Yes you are the only sane one here.
Despite all the evidence you say it can't be done. Might as well end the discussion.

By the way, Manufacturers quote crank hp, not wheel. The rest of us here have been talking crank hp.

And Car and Driver must be the craziest of all, because in the new issue 25 cars worth waiting for they are still saying flat plane crank voodoo producing 550hp starting at $50,000.

I was going off a post by someone saying 500-550 rwhp in 5.0 coyote is possible. Of course you can, but do it for mass production, durability/reliability, pass all enviro regs, and do it cheaply.

Where was c/d before the 13. I saw not one Mag state correctly that the 13 was 650+ HP!

 

[jjw]

Sorry, I know very little about the car but I know enough to know that you are way off.

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