Vibration between 50 & 70 mph

[speedfrk]

I had a vibration felt through the steering wheel, shifter, and the seat at about 52mph through 65mph. Very slight vibration but noticeable. Had the tires rotated and balanced yesterday and now it's gone. Just a what's up from my situation on the problem :cheers:

Yeah, don't skip the simple fix and jump to the conclusion that you have a DS problem. Generally, if you feel it in the steering wheel, it is probably tires. The DS problem is a different frequency- about 3x what you get with a tire out of balance. You know it if you have it...

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[Faris14]

^^^ Find a new dealership that takes problem seriously.

Unfortunately the technician guy test drove the car but I wasn't with him, and he said there's no vibration!! I really can feel it and hear it over 55 mph. Also I have the clank sound when shifting from Drive to Reverse and so forth. He said that's normal! I'll take the car to a different dealership but I'm afraid they would say the same thing! I checked the yellow dots and they are aligned! Any other problems could cause that and do you guys have that clank sound when shifting?

 

[speedfrk]

So, here's my "how they fixed it" post. First, we need to realize that there are 2 possible causes for the driveshaft/driveline vibration. The first is out of spec parts- DS, pinion flange are out of round or not straight. The second is out of balance parts- just like a wheel/tire the DS or pinion flange have heavy or light spots. They are supposed to be balanced at the factory but nothing is perfect. It can be either or both of them together.

When I took my car in the first time, they verified the vibration, checked the runout on the DS (out of spec) and installed a new DS. This did not fix it, so they ordered another DS and waited for the Ford rep to be there for the install. This DS was in spec for runout but the car still had the vibration- quite bad at 60mph.The Ford rep had vibration measuring equipment and they balanced the DS on the car after the install. This still did not fix the problem but they didn't have another option to try so I mentioned that replacing the pinion flange had fixed it on Chris' car. Since the vibration was still very evident, the Ford rep said to order the flange. The next time the Ford rep was going to be there, they scheduled it to replace the pinion flange and re-balance the DS again. This fixed it. The picture below shows one of the bolts holding the DS to the flange (there are 6) with a flat washer under the head of the bolt. That is how they add weight to balance the DS on the car. It looks like a regular washer but I'd guess they come in a kit and are pre-weighed. Compared to the weights welded on the DS, these are pretty small so they are really fine-tuning. I wasn't there for any of this so I'm going on what they told me they did- which I believe.

I know they measure the DS and pinion flange for runout to make sure they are both round but I don't know if they check the pinion flange face for runout. If the face of the flange which bolts to the DS is not perfectly flat or exactly 90deg to the pinion axis, then it will make the DS spin in an elliptical pattern and cause vibration. I have no idea what the spec on that should be but I'd guess less than .005in.

Anyways, here is what I'd ask the dealer to do, knowing what we know now-
1) Check runout on the DS and flange- if either is out, replace flange.
2) Check the face of the flange to make sure it is flat and perpendicular to the pinion axis. If out, replace flange.
3) Recheck runout with the new flange. Drive the car and check for vibration. If out, replace DS.
4) Balance DS on the car using the washers.
5) Drive the car at the affected speeds in 5 mph increments on as smooth a section of Hwy as possible and measure vibration levels in the car with the equipment to make sure the vibration has not changed to a different speed/rpm.

If the dealer doesn't have the vibration measuring equipment, or doesn't know how to use it, make sure the Ford rep is there to do it correctly.

 

[GT Pony]

^^^ Nice summary. Do you know how they measured vibration on the car to determine exactly where the balancing washers needed to go? I'm assuming they used their vibration measuring equipment to somehow while the car was ran on a lift to determine where the weight needed to go?

 

[speedfrk]

^^^ Nice summary. Do you know how they measured vibration on the car to determine exactly where the balancing washers needed to go? I'm assuming they used their vibration measuring equipment to somehow while the car was ran on a lift to determine where the weight needed to go?

Not sure since I wasn't there when they did it. But yes, they run it on a lift. It could even be trial and error but that is very time consuming. I'd guess they use something like this.
http://www.dataphysics.com/industries/automotive-and-commercial-vehicle.html

The one they use on the road mounts accelerometers on the seat frame and it measures vibration levels and frequencies and matches them to know causes like wheel/tire, driveline, transmission, etc.

 

[speedfrk]

Thanks for the summary.



Sadly, some of us are surrounded by terrible dealers. Today I took my replacement (2016 Mustang GT, 350 miles in) for the vibration issue and this is what their report says: "Test drove and could not verify concern. Checked oasis, no tsb/ssm for concern. Performed 2nd test drive with service manager, again no problem found. Did find that the steering was set on sports mode. Relearned to normal mode"

I almost lost it when they were trying to explain how "Sport Mode" (Steering) might cause the vibration on the steering wheel etc. (not sure why they would tell me this since they didn't detect any vibration, go figure). I immediately told them "Don't worry, I'm going to take it to Palmetto Ford". Palmetto Ford was the dealer that acknowledged my old Mustang's vibration, but were only allowed to balance the tires.

I guess I'll have to go through the BBB again they don't fix it on the 3rd time. I'm going to get my money back this time... I'm seriously tired of all of this.

/end-of-rant

Take it to a different dealer and go ride with the SM or mechanic. Demonstrate the vibration and speed. Print out the list of stuff they did to my car and tell them that the Ford engineer approved these repairs/procedures. PM the Ford CS people and get it escalated.
I know it is a PITA... my car took 8 visits, 2 months and about 2 days of my time lost to work. Not sure if I will buy another Ford now.
On the other hand, my friend took his C300 Mercedes in for several warranty issues including a leaking sunroof that soaked the carpet and smelled like a sewer. They gave him a 2016 loaner C300, said they would take care of everything and call him when it was done. A C300 is no more expensive than an equipped GT or EB... Ford has to realize that they are playing on the same field as everyone else.

 

[GT Pony]

Today I took my replacement (2016 Mustang GT, 350 miles in) to Jones Ford for the vibration issue, they test drove it, gave it back to me without inspecting it and gave me their Service Report, which says: "Test drove and could not verify concern. Checked oasis, no tsb/ssm for concern. Performed 2nd test drive with service manager, again no problem found. Did find that the steering was set on sports mode. Relearned to normal mode"

I almost lost it when they were trying to explain how "Sport Mode" (Steering) might cause the vibration on the steering wheel etc.

Did they even look at the front tires for defects and check the balance? A simple thing like a bad tire or one out of balance can cause steering wheel shake/shimmy.

 

[Chris22888]

Well I took mine in and just got a call. They say it is a normal characteristic and the one on there lot was worse than the mine so there is nothing they can do? I am lost now my main concern is the clunk when putting it in gear. They also said one of my rims was bent but its not that bad and isn't causing any issues. ***I think they meant had some curb rash on this which has been there since I bought it.**** I am just baffled at this being normal and feel like I am starting to re live the nightmare of the Fiesta I bought that was just a POS. There is no way this can be normal at all. The vibration I can see somewhat but not the clunk when you put it in gear. PM Ford rep my info and will get it back into the dealership again I am sure but it sure would be nice to have it be one trip and done.

 

[Chris22888]

I have no clue (highly doubt it). I'm going to check my dashcam later tonight, or tomorrow afternoon.

I wish I would of had my dash cam in. My brother pulled in to pay for the oil change and they almost ran right into him in my car swinging around the corner way to fast and wide. I guess they figured they need to test it by driving it like they stole it.

 

[speedfrk]

Curious: How much would a professional mechanic or shop charge to inspect the driveline?


Replacement vehicle (2016 Mustang GT) still vibrates at high speeds. Palmetto Ford were able to get rid of the steering wheel "shake" at lower speeds. I can now say for sure that it's not the tires/wheels.

1st appointment: Jones Ford: They couldn't replicate it. Nothing was done.
2nd appointment: Palmetto Ford: They test drove the car with me, noticed the vibration and steering wheel shake at low/high speeds. Wheels were balanced.
3rd appointment: Palmetto Ford: They re-balanced the tires.

They really need to be using a ground force balancing machine to get the tires right. If they aren't, find a good performance shop that has one and just pay them. In ATL Discount Tire has GF machines and Butler Tire does high performance tires/wheels. Did the dealer check the alignment, too? I'd make sure it was right if the vibration is wheel/tire frequency.

 

[GT Pony]

Silly question: Will the warranty get void if a non-ford shop "checks" the driveline?

The warranty won't be voided, but you'll have to pay out of your pocket.

 

[speedfrk]

My bad, they did force balance all 4 tires/wheels, twice. Not sure if we have any performance shops here in Charleston, but I'll check. Thanks for the info.

*edit* It's not a balance issue at the moment. The car seemed to have multiple issues. I need to get the driveline checked somewhere else.

*edit* Silly question: Will the warranty get void if a non-ford shop "checks" the driveline?

Take it to any Ford dealer... tell them the story and that re-indexing the DS to the pinion flange sometimes helps and replacing the pinion flange has fixed at least 2 cars that had multiple DS replaced with no luck.

Also, make sure you test it on several road surfaces. I thought mine still had some vibration when I drove it on pretty new and smooth asphalt but when I drove it on newly poured concrete that had been ground smooth, it was fine.

 

[speedfrk]

Maybe... if you get a high performance shop to verify that it does indeed have a driveline vibration you would have some ammunition when you go back to the dealer. Can't hurt. I'd also want to drive a couple of their other GT's on the lot to demonstrate that it isn't normal. My salesman had no problem going out with me to test drive a couple of cars. But, and this is a big but- my dealer actually wanted to get my car fixed. I don't get the impression that your's does.

 

[GT Pony]

Long story short: I've been dealing with this issue for almost a year now. My old 2015 Mustang EB had it and none of the dealers didn't really do anything to fix it (6 appointments, 3 dealers, 46 days total in service). I went through the BBB and won the case since the car was pretty much falling apart. My 2016 Mustang GT (replacement) has the vibration as well, but it's not as bad (3 appointments, 2 dealers, 4 days total). The forced balancing helped a bit, but I can still feel the vibration at high speeds (on any road).

Need to find a dealer who has the vibration monitoring test equipment and a guy who knows how to trouble-shoot vibration issues.

 

[ElRuso]

Well.
I guess, I'll join the team. My story exactly the same, as everybody else here. Vibration since day 1. 5 (FIVE) attempts to fix it.

1. Tires balance.
2. Replacing whole rear end.
3. Sorry, we see it vibrates, we don't know why.
4. Ford service engineer - "the car is drives perfect, nothing wrong"
5. BBB replacement attempted. Declined. "We feel a little vibration from the surface pavement, not a safety issue."
6. Another replacement rear end, driveshaft, everything around (new stile differential).
The result is nothing. Last service order states "Awaing for advice from driveshaft manufacture".

Too bad for me. Trying to call the ford help line - they are very nice, however, all they do - reopen my case, the next day I receive the call from REALLY RUDE service manager, who's pretending to be a parrot. One example of my dialogs with her:

- Ma'am, my car vibrates, can you fix it for me?
- Sir, you car is fine, it is not.
- Ma'am, I got it 2 weeks from the dealership, they said it vibrates, I have the work order in my hands.
- Sir, you car is fine, it is not.
- Ma'am, can you read English?
- Yes, sir.
- Can you read the work order?
- Yes, I can.
- Ma'am, your staff WROTE it down. It is vibrating.
- Sir, you car is fine, it is not.
- Ok, thank you very much, have a nice day.
Hang up.
- Biiiiiip-biiiiiiip-biiiiiiiiiiiip, you stu***d peace of biiiiiiip.

50 days in shop. 50 days of driving economic rentals, tons of time, phone calls etc. NOTHING IS FIXED!

I'm so confused right now, and don't really know what to do. I contacted several lawyers, and everybody is happy to take this case, after looking at the paperwork, however, I love this car. It has been my dream car since 2008, when I saw a prototype. I JUST WANT IT TO BE FIXED!

So, my idea is to get connected here, I believe 25 owners with the same issue will be good enough for them to talk with us differently. If not - we can file the law case not just from my name, but from all of us. I'm personally getting really tired from the way they talk to me. I spent 36K not for this BS.

PM me with your name and contact phone number, if you feel like fighting for your money spent, time spent, and your nerve cells killed.

Tony.

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