Those using E30 fuel...

[KrisR]

E30 results! I'm impressed. This is at the same boost level (about 21-22lbs) as the 93 tune, just with a 1/3 E70 and 2/3 93 octane mix (aka E30). The tune was tweaked by Lund for the change in stoich for the fuel and it allows for more spark adder but that was the only change. The car loves it! Unfortunately the fuel system won't support full E85 in these cars so E30 is it. The plot is a cooled-off 93 pull versus a cooled-off E30 pull. The E30 tune is also lots more consistent as it only lost a couple hp and tq on a backup pull. 177-179* cylinder head temp on both.
Also the air inlet temp (post intercooler) was much warmer on the E30 pull, starting at 82*F at the beginning of the pull rising to 156* at the end! (yes the factory intercooler is terrible). On the 93 octane pull, inlet temp started at 51* and rose to 125*.

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[Tune+]

E30 results! I'm impressed. This is at the same boost level (about 21-22lbs) as the 93 tune, just with a 1/3 E70 and 2/3 93 octane mix (aka E30). The tune was tweaked by Lund for the change in stoich for the fuel and it allows for more spark adder but that was the only change. The car loves it! Unfortunately the fuel system won't support full E85 in these cars so E30 is it. The plot is a cooled-off 93 pull versus a cooled-off E30 pull. The E30 tune is also lots more consistent as it only lost a couple hp and tq on a backup pull. 177-179* cylinder head temp on both.
Also the air inlet temp (post intercooler) was much warmer on the E30 pull, starting at 82*F at the beginning of the pull rising to 156* at the end! (yes the factory intercooler is terrible). On the 93 octane pull, inlet temp started at 51* and rose to 125*.

Nice, E30 is great stuff. I picked up 50whp on a car with E30 from the 93 tune but unfortunately I can't find the runs from that day. Here is the latest one I did two days ago, I just can't get enough ethanol in my life. It's the man's fuel!

Only Modifications:

Levels Intercooler
AFE Drop In Filter

93oct vs E30


Edit: Realized the picture is too small..

 

[KrisR]

Cool, thanks Adam. Is that 50hp gain also with adding a little boost? Lund doesn't want to add any boost until I upgrade my IC (I don't blame them, makes sense to me). This was at 21-22lbs.

 

[Tune+]

Cool, thanks Adam. Is that 50hp gain also with adding a little boost? Lund doesn't want to add any boost until I upgrade my IC (I don't blame them, makes sense to me). This was at 21-22lbs.

23psi. Most E30 tunes I do are additional timing only, with a base timing around 22-24psi depending on the customers modifications. They have to have a setup that makes sense in order to get the full benefit of E30.

 

[KrisR]

I'm just now sort of learning about this E30 alternative. Have some questions if you don't mind. Can any good tuner tune for this? Besides a custom tune for it, would any other bolt ons be necessary?

I believe most tuners can send you tunes for E30, yes. You don't need any other modifications, you just need to understand how to mix the two fuels to get the desired ratio, and how to load a tune into your car and send the data about how your car is running (via datalogging) to the tuner so they can see if the tune file(s) they sent need any work to optimize your vehicle. But really that's true of any of the tuning sources and fuels.

 

[PRG3k]

I have another question, I know the alcohol in the ethanol absorbs water and can create condensation in the fuel system if left too long. How long is too long in some of your opinions? My car is not my daily so a tankful of E30 can take as much as a week and a half to go through.

Any opinions on this question yet?

 

[flomoloko]

I believe most tuners can send you tunes for E30, yes. You don't need any other modifications, you just need to understand how to mix the two fuels to get the desired ratio, and how to load a tune into your car and send the data about how your car is running (via datalogging) to the tuner so they can see if the tune file(s) they sent need any work to optimize your vehicle. But really that's true of any of the tuning sources and fuels.

This is just awesome. I've purchased two custom tunes recently for my SCT X4, and am in the process of datalogging for an aggressive 93 summer tune to complement my existing (conservative) 93 winter tune. Now learning about this E30, I'm just stoked at all my options that lay ahead.

 

[KrisR]

Any opinions on this question yet?

My personal opinion, I think most people are overthinking this issue. I've used straight E85 in several vehicles, never switching back to pump gas until it was time to get sell the cars, lol, and I've not had one issue with fuel components due to ethanol being present. Even over winter storage. The cars just started right up and ran perfectly the next spring. I didn't beat on them until I got a good fresh tank of fuel, but they were good to go. But others might disagree, it's just my opinion. There's ethanol present at some level in pretty much all gasoline anyway.

 

[KrisR]

Has anyone else logged Fuel Rail Pressure when running E30? Mine has an issue with pressure drop. Commanded WOT FRP is 2900 throughout, and actual FRP in a full pull on mine starts out near commanded, then falls way off to the 1300-1400 range at around 3000rpm, then creeps back up close to commanded at 5000-5500+. Fuel trims and air/fuel are perfect throughout. Lund tuning, they are investigating my logs. I'll get a screenshot in a bit.

Car has a Lund E30 tune, MAP intake, MAP IC, and MAP catless DP. Only around 20-21lbs of boost.

 

[Busser48]

My personal opinion, I think most people are overthinking this issue. I've used straight E85 in several vehicles, never switching back to pump gas until it was time to get sell the cars, lol, and I've not had one issue with fuel components due to ethanol being present. Even over winter storage. The cars just started right up and ran perfectly the next spring. I didn't beat on them until I got a good fresh tank of fuel, but they were good to go. But others might disagree, it's just my opinion. There's ethanol present at some level in pretty much all gasoline anyway.

U saying you think you can run straight e85 in our cars now without a kit??

 

[KrisR]

U saying you think you can run straight e85 in our cars now without a kit??

Not at all, no way. I'm just saying that one shouldn't worry about having some ethanol in their tanks in these cars. I see no reason to 'flush' out an E30 mix occasionally with straight pump gas as someone suggested.

 

[Juben]

Not at all, no way. I'm just saying that one shouldn't worry about having some ethanol in their tanks in these cars. I see no reason to 'flush' out an E30 mix occasionally with straight pump gas as someone suggested.

I've suggested doing a flush every so often so the ethanol content doesn't creep up. Even on E, you still have about 1 gallon of fuel in the tank. If you have a gallon of E30 left every fill up and keep adding to it, it'll eventually creep up over time. Will this be like running E31 on one tank and then E40 on the next? No, but I just do it as a safeguard. Once the ethanol content starts getting up around 33%-34%, then you can have problems based on what Adam has said. Like I said though, it's just something I do. If I can take a small safeguard here and there, I usually do it.

 

[KrisR]

I always just add the same ratio of E85 to 93 at each fill up. I don't let it get down low and add the same volume of E85 each time. I use the trip meter and average economy to figure the gallons used, and divide it that way. But that's just me.

 

[KrisR]

I'll get a screenshot in a bit.

Car has a Lund E30 tune, MAP intake, MAP IC, and MAP catless DP. Only around 20-21lbs of boost.

Here's a screenshot of a 4th gear log, showing actual FRP versus commanded FRP and RPM. 21lbs of boost.
E30 fuel. Air/fuel and fuel trims are fine throughout, so TECHNICALLY it has enough fuel to support it but it doesn't look good...

...and here is another shot of a similar fourth gear pull from a log I did when I was using straight 93 pump gas.

Jon Lund II has been very helpful so far but it's frustrating knowing that others are running more aggressive tunes with E30 and getting away with it somehow. Oh well.

 

[dausmus]

I always just add the same ratio of E85 to 93 at each fill up. I don't let it get down low and add the same volume of E85 each time. I use the trip meter and average economy to figure the gallons used, and divide it that way. But that's just me.

Doing this only increases the ethanol content every time you refill to the point that it is unsafe. For example, 11 gallons of 93 Oct in the tank requires 4.133 gallons of E85 and the rest with 93 oct to make E30.
Say you refill again at 11 gallons of E30 left in the tank, you only need to refill 1.2 gallons with E85 and rest with 93 Oct to achieve E30 blend

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