SCCA CAM-C Thread

[mavisky]

Basically yes - whether it's from furthermost point of bumper cover or the place where the splitter attaches to the body (which in some car is further back than front of the bumper cover).

I agree it is worth clarification - protest is probably at this point the only way to do it but there's bullshit protest shaming going (like the ESL Miata guy that spammed a bunch of fb groups) and additional stigma of protests in CAM.

At this point it needs to become a full non supplemental class with clear rules. It's far past the point of bring your regular modified street muscle car to autocross.

Agreed.

I believe on my car I based it on the lower portion of the bumper not including the factory "splitter" because it varies based upon where you are at on the splitter as to which portion actually sticks out further on the base GT350.

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[WItoTX]

I had that question clarified before the big rule change, but Raleigh said a different thing to a competitor last week, so yeah. Its worth a protest to get an answer, but I didn't want to be "that guy" this time esp on the final day results and at nationals. Better to protest after day 1 so there's some wiggle room to 'correct' the issue w/o invalidating the competitor's runs, and probably better to get that clarification at a smaller national event than the big one.

Basically yes - whether it's from furthermost point of bumper cover or the place where the splitter attaches to the body (which in some car is further back than front of the bumper cover).

I agree it is worth clarification - protest is probably at this point the only way to do it but there's bullshit protest shaming going (like the ESL Miata guy that spammed a bunch of fb groups) and additional stigma of protests in CAM.

At this point it needs to become a full non supplemental class with clear rules. It's far past the point of bring your regular modified street muscle car to autocross.

How potentially "rule violating" are we talking? Like an extra inch of splitter? Or just not in agreement with where the splitter is being measured from?

I read the rule, and I thought it was pretty clear myself.

 

[NightmareMoon]

How potentially "rule violating" are we talking? Like an extra inch of splitter? Or just not in agreement with where the splitter is being measured from?

I read the rule, and I thought it was pretty clear myself.

He was exactly 6" from his lower valence at all points, but like 8" from his body, so I'd say he was 2" bigger than everyone else. Its not how I, or Schotz, or Fletcher, or even Terry Fair read the rules, but nobody protested me in 22 for having a slightly questionable splitter at the corners, and one guy thought I might be illegal then, so I'm kind of playing it forward this time for CAM.

 

[mustanghammer]

Congrats on being the Fast Ford Nightmare!

Its too bad there isn't a way to get a good faith post event ruling regarding things like this. A ruling that doesn't change the results but gives everyone rules clarity. In situations like this, It is likely that you are right and his car isn't compliant. But it is also likely true that this infraction isn't the reason he finished 3rd. Since CAM isn't like the rest of the jacket classes maybe a committee of drivers could be appointed to make rulings like these.

Back in the early 90s I was involved in a protest that involved the CPL Champion's 82 Fox Mustang when we were at Salina. None of the illegal items earned the driver her Championship but the car was not legal. We won the protest appeal and frankly, I felt like shit about it.

Later when everything moved to Forbes field, Dave Whitworth and I had a disagreement about how his CP Mustang was constructed at the Midiv Divisional Championships. Instead of hanging paper, he and I agreed to get a ruling from the chief of tech after the event was over. The benefit was that we would get an opinion from a respected car builder and racer while not changing the event results. As it turned out the chief of tech agreed with me, Dave fixed his car before Nat's and he and I remained friends.

 

[TeeLew]

I got pitched in tech one time for two little splitter edge triangle pieces on the side that were maybe 1/2" wide and 3" long. The competitor that protested had noticed it was a 'friend' and used it as a weapon when we beat him. It was a hell of a penalty for a bodywork infraction. Don't be that guy.

 

[WItoTX]

He was exactly 6" from his lower valence at all points, but like 8" from his body, so I'd say he was 2" bigger than everyone else. Its not how I, or Schotz, or Fletcher, or even Terry Fair read the rules, but nobody protested me in 22 for having a slightly questionable splitter at the corners, and one guy thought I might be illegal then, so I'm kind of playing it forward this time for CAM.

Ahh okay, that makes sense. I can see the gray area in that. I didn't realize the lower valence on those cars stuck out that far.

I always just assumed furthest point forward as part of the OE equipment, so like a 350R could get away with more splitter than a non R, or GT for that matter.

I'd love to know the DF improvement over a small amount, say 1", of additional splitter. Or it it matters where the 1" is located on the car (center vs the corners).

 

[NightmareMoon]

Ifnhe did

Ahh okay, that makes sense. I can see the gray area in that. I didn't realize the lower valence on those cars stuck out that far.

I always just assumed furthest point forward as part of the OE equipment, so like a 350R could get away with more splitter than a non R, or GT for that matter.

I'd love to know the DF improvement over a small amount, say 1", of additional splitter. Or it it matters where the 1" is located on the car (center vs the corners).

I’m not even sure I want to run a bigger splitter, as I already scrape plenty often with my current one. Probably raising it for clearance would be less net downforce than running the slightly smaller one close to the ground. Ideally you do both low and big but practically speaking I still need to drive the car off site a little.

 

[Aluehrs11]

Yeah it was good to see you again.

My 3.73s, 18” wheels, rev limit, and ‘16 MT82 will do 64.0 in 2nd and I hit that on that 270 stretch and again into the finish.

That and the finish are also long sustained left handers, so they’re also a fuel starve situation. I think I starved into the finish at 1/2 tank. Not great. Those spots were worth time. I’ve even fuel starved on the practice course before.

Next time will run 3/4 tank both days to be sure.

How the heck are you hitting 64 in second? My 15 with 305/30/19's is limited to 55. Did you raise the limiter or something? Also are you running any power adders?

 

[WItoTX]

How the heck are you hitting 64 in second? My 15 with 305/30/19's is limited to 55. Did you raise the limiter or something? Also are you running any power adders?

Your car is broke . Mine is 78 in second with the same size tires. 84 if I run factory tire size.

I am only kidding on the broke part. But seriously, if it can only do 55 in 2nd, something is up.

 

[Aluehrs11]

Your car is broke . Mine is 78 in second with the same size tires. 84 if I run factory tire size.

I am only kidding on the broke part. But seriously, if it can only do 55 in 2nd, something is up.

I'm guessing gt350 trans has different ratios. I know I've got the shortest ratios possible, 15 and performance pack. Maybe the ol GoPro speedo isn't the most accurate

 

[NightmareMoon]

How the heck are you hitting 64 in second? My 15 with 305/30/19's is limited to 55. Did you raise the limiter or something? Also are you running any power adders?

Raised the limiter to 7800 and I have 3.73s. 64 was indicated on my Solostorm data, but I think the actual limit is closer to 63. Must have been a tail wind.

55 does sound low for a '15 with 3.73s and 305/R19 tires. On paper you should be 57.8 in 2nd and I should be 62.8 in 2nd.

 

[WItoTX]

I'm guessing gt350 trans has different ratios. I know I've got the shortest ratios possible, 15 and performance pack. Maybe the ol GoPro speedo isn't the most accurate

3.73's?

 

[Aluehrs11]

3.73's?

Yeah stock performance pack diff

 

[kz]

Your car is broke . Mine is 78 in second with the same size tires. 84 if I run factory tire size.

I am only kidding on the broke part. But seriously, if it can only do 55 in 2nd, something is up.

It is not - '15-'17 PP cars with 3.73 ratio were only making ~59mph on a stock 275/40R19 tire (that version of MT82 has a short second gear). His tire is also shorter which lowers the max speed even more.

(18-23 on the other hand have really tall 2nd gear and you kind of have to use shorter tire or install 4.09 or higher gear in the diff for this car to move at all).

 

[Aluehrs11]

Raised the limiter to 7800 and I have 3.73s. 64 was indicated on my Solostorm data, but I think the actual limit is closer to 63. Must have been a tail wind.

55 does sound low for a '15 with 3.73s and 305/R19 tires. On paper you should be 57.8 in 2nd and I should be 62.8 in 2nd.

Hmm maybe the speedo widget on GoPro isn't the most accurate. 2 mph doesn't sound too far off.

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