Procharger Stage 2 Help With Knock

[Tommy V]

I think I went 137 on 4.25 and pump if I recall correctly

When u say pump gas are you meaning straight pump or 93 and and octane booster????

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[Sawyerjames]

I think a huge diff between your car and mine is the 10 speed auto, 3rd for you isn't going to be 3rd for me. And obviously the differences in the motor. You know what pulley you're running?

I am running the 4.1 pulley currently. Making close to 660whp on 93 with a can of Torco. I think the 18' manifold has a lot to do with the power difference as well

 

[80FoxCoupe]

When u say pump gas are you meaning straight pump or 93 and and octane booster????

I did run that with octane booster, simply to prevent any possible knock on those hits. No additional timing or anything as I only have one tune.

Whoops, I misread your post. 4.0 and 141 mph was as outlined above. 4.25 and 137mph was straight pump 93.

 

[Black Dog]

The D1 stops making steam just over 900whp. To even consider playing at TX2K I need to be above 1k. Twins come into play when I build a short block. D1SC just won’t get me there.

I’m not running the Wastgate right now. Making plenty of steam on just the 4.63 And E85. Once my converter gets here I’ll be able to make some passes to get where it’s really at; built trans is sitting waiting for it.

There is this pesky guy in Dallas @Black Dog that keeps giving me crap about how his TT setup will rape my D1... pretty sure he is right...

What does Pesky mean? Is that code word for "In front of you?" Because if that Pesky guy was in back of you he would not be Pesky I would assume.

 

[Sawyerjames]

P1sc? Any other mods besides the mani and blower? What’s the torque look like? Got any graphs?

Yeah, I went with the P1SC. The car is my daily driver and plenty of power for the street. I have a Corsa Extreme Catback, 1050 injectors, colder plugs, and fuel pump boost. My car was knocking, and pulling in the uppers of 11-12 degrees of timing on any 93 gas in my area. After going back and forth with Lund, we tried a can of octane boost and the car loved it and started adding timing. I am not a huge fan of adding a can of octane boost at every fill up, but I am filling up less because it does well with fuel mileage. Since e85 is tough to get around here, I am going to get a stage 3 meth kit eventually, but have not really looked to deep into them. I have logs on my lap top, or at least the most recent ones. I will try to get some posted. I'm going back to the dyno this coming Monday, so we will see what it can do...

 

[ahl395]

Yeah, I went with the P1SC. The car is my daily driver and plenty of power for the street. I have a Corsa Extreme Catback, 1050 injectors, colder plugs, and fuel pump boost. My car was knocking, and pulling in the uppers of 11-12 degrees of timing on any 93 gas in my area. After going back and forth with Lund, we tried a can of octane boost and the car loved it and started adding timing. I am not a huge fan of adding a can of octane boost at every fill up, but I am filling up less because it does well with fuel mileage. Since e85 is tough to get around here, I am going to get a stage 3 meth kit eventually, but have not really looked to deep into them. I have logs on my lap top, or at least the most recent ones. I will try to get some posted. I'm going back to the dyno this coming Monday, so we will see what it can do...

Meth worked wonders for me on 93. I gained 3psi and 3-5 degrees of timing from meth injection.

 

[JPSTANG]

Meth worked wonders for me on 93. I gained 3psi and 3-5 degrees of timing from meth injection.

Real quick, I don't remember, did you tune for it or just add it?
You can PM me if you want so I don't high jack this thread!

 

[80FoxCoupe]

Get some track times!!!

 

[bluebeastsrt]

I don’t know of many half mile events. But the rings will hold up just fine. On a 0-160 blast. (About what you’ll hit in a half mile) Your not under full throttle much longer in a half mile event. Than on a 1/4 mile pass.

 

[ahl395]

Figured I'd throw an update out there. Got a 4.25" pulley along with a 170 degree tstat installed. Man that tstat install was a pain with the blower in the car, wish I had done it during the blower install...oh well it's done now.

I'll say this, the .5" reduction in pulley size really woke the car up in the mid range, imho this is how the kit should have came from procharger. I'll see roughly 10-12 psi by like 7000-7200rpm...I say roughly because the boost while steadily going up with rpm also has it's one peaks and valleys. I've seen that on other's logs so I guess that's the nature of a centrifugal setup? The car will stay this way for the remainder of the year, but I already know I'm going to want more boost next year, you get used to the power pretty quickly and always want more...it's a disease that's for sure. Searching around seems like 3.85" is the lowest I could go, max'ing out the blower rpm limit of 65,000 by 7500rpm. Curious on people's thoughts about going that low with a stock motor.

Coolant temps when driving around in traffic appear to be between 10-15 degrees cooler, so that's a good thing too.

A little variation in boost is normal.

12psi is usually the most you can run on 93 octane, so unless you plan on doing E85 or meth injection I wouldnt drop a pulley again. That being said 3.85 on a P1SC will give you about 14-15psi. If you have the octane that's doable on a stock motor. I'm running 15psi myself.

Yah I may try and go. I’ll have to look at local track schedule. What’s consensus on 1/2 mile events, don’t do them cuz the rings can’t withstand the prolonged abuse?

Personally even with meth I stay away from 1/2 mile until I have a built motor. YMMV of course but I have seen several people hurt their motors that way.

 

[ahl395]

Is that due to the extra heat --> detonation when running more than ~12psi?

What wound up being the issue the motor?

Running 93 you cant usually go over 12psi because yes detonation will cause you to have to retard timing a ton. Not really related to heat though.

More octane will let you run more boost/timing. Gen 3's have higher compression so cant even run 12psi on the same fuel (but the extra compression makes up for it too)

My only comment about heat is more time at WOT = more heat = more stress on the rings. E85 does run a bit cooler than 93 does but thats not the cause of ~12psi being the limit on 93.

 

[ahl395]

ok, makes sense, appreciate the explanation. so in theory i could pulley down further and log it to see if there's knock retard, and either go back to a 4.25 or run the car with some torco or boostane.

Yes you could do that. I would only try it if your current setup maxes the timing on several different tanks of gas. Then pulley down and see how it responds and add torco if needed. Running more than 12 on 93 is risky though and the more boost you run the more risk your taking. You can blow a motor from a bad tank of gas if the knock sensors cant react in time. If you add Torco each tannk you will be safer though.

The main issue is pump gas varies tremendously. When I was running 12psi I would see a 3 degree sway on timing depending on the tank of gas I had in it. So if you do that I would be religious about adding Torco.

 

[ahl395]

OK I'll keep an eye and a log with each tank. The last log I nabbed pulled 1 degree very briefly on this current tank. I'll generally only fill up from Shell or BP, but even then I'm sure there's variances. And like others have done, I can also try and DYI a wastegate setup.

Very brief could be false knock if it started adding again after.

Wastegate setup made a big difference for midrange on my car. It wont help your peak number though

 

[ahl395]

Yeah it pulled timing for a couple hundred rpm, and only 1 degree so nothing crazy.

I'm mostly interested in more mid-range since that's where I spend a majority of the time driving.

One drawback to a WG setup though is having to switch to the red race valve, i'm not super interested in a ton of noise at idle/cruise.

A P1SC is maxed at 14-15psi. The Pro-flo valve can probably handle that so you wouldnt need to upgrade. Otherwise the gate will only make noise after it opens in high RPMs.

 

[whatsup62]

A P1SC is maxed at 14-15psi. The Pro-flo valve can probably handle that so you wouldnt need to upgrade. Otherwise the gate will only make noise after it opens in high RPMs.

Correction - the P1SC-1 is MAXED out at 65000 impeller RPM...Boost will vary depending on the set-up. Once you hit 65000 you are not gaining a thing after that. I saw 13.5ish at that impeller speed.

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