Please Do Not Run E-85 on Stock Injectors.

[Terminator2]

Interesting point about elevation.

What would be considered high elevation? I live in the Atlanta area with an elevation of 1100'.

Technically anything above sea level but for practical purposes for every 2500ft or so you lose around 1psi of Baro pressure and airmass drops by about 8% but you have to calculate total DA though including actual elevation, baro pressure at that time, temperature and humidity.

Sponsored

 

[johndnardi07]

HP Tuners who makes Lunds ngauge didn't have the ability to long injector duty cycle up until recently so all we had before about a month ago was injector pulse width to try to estimate injector duty cycle.

HP tuners does not make the nGauge

 

[HISSMAN]

At first I wasn't concerned.. but since this is now 7 pages long and not one tuning company has chimed in... well, I may fill up with 93 today.

 

[18psi]

I wouldn't let that be the deciding factor to be honest.

When's the last time you saw ANY of the major tuners/companies on here sharing any sort of info?
It really saddens me how insanely dog-eat-dog the tuning support for these cars is. No one shares anything, no one explains anything, they want your money and no questions asked, you get a tune but know nothing about what was changed, how it was done, nothing. It's their bread, their income, so I guess that's expected, I've just never seen it be this extreme.

 

[HISSMAN]

Don't need them to be specific.. Just chime in and say...yes, it is perfectly safe. I know that they have said that in the past, but it's just that warm fuzzy thing that we need to be reminded of from time to time.

On another note. Say for instance a tuner finds a better 'tune' for a given set of mods, and you have one of their older tunes. Will they let you know that they have a new update?

 

[Need4Speed15]

For what it's worth this concern has been discussed in detail in the Lund (Beefcake & Lethal) and Livernois threads when they started offering these tunes. Many people asked about the injectors and they answered/explained.

I'm sure anyone can reach out to those companies and ask directly.

 

[mustang_guy]

I wouldn't let that be the deciding factor to be honest.

When's the last time you saw ANY of the major tuners/companies on here sharing any sort of info?
It really saddens me how insanely dog-eat-dog the tuning support for these cars is. No one shares anything, no one explains anything, they want your money and no questions asked, you get a tune but know nothing about what was changed, how it was done, nothing. It's their bread, their income, so I guess that's expected, I've just never seen it be this extreme.

Its a different beast then the opensource world. There is an hptuner forum and Eric brooks can be helpful.

 

[99gtp]

Not a fan of CSV logs, but I imported it to HPT to make a bit easier to read.

It looks like you were running .85λ through out the pull, give or take a point or two here and there, which is normal.

I also notice you never really exceeded 43lbs/min, which is stock air flow numbers. Seeing as how your fuel trims were +/-1% we can say your MAF is pretty spot on.

In comparison, Term is seeing 47lbs/min with simular fuel trims. He is running a PMAS intake vs your JLT, but I don't know if that would account for the additional 4lbs of air he is seeing. How close to sea level are you? if you are high elavation where fuel demand is less than that would explain why the stock fuel system can support e85, there isn't as much fuel needed than in the lower elevation areas.

600 feet above seal level.

 

[markmurfie]

Your fueling is not good. You say these percentages but your charts show differently. During the wot it's obvious your commanded and actual are consistently off. Commanded .9 and actual .83. This is about 9% error and would be in your 100-200 period range right where you are getting your 47lb/min from. This is 9% rich so it tells me these maf numbers are to high. Remove 9% from 47 you get about 43. Richen it up to .85-.86 and you would see what these lund tune guys are seeing and with out the 9% error throwing off your IPW and hence your IDC. You would probably see closer to low to mid 80% DC. Then it becomes a question of injector life not so much engine safety.

An example of good commanded vs actual. .850 actual and .859 commanded. Take the .009 difference and divide by actual to get .010 multiply by 100 for 1%. Do this the other way .850 actual and .841 commanded you also get 1%. This gives you the 2% window you are shooting for with fueling. Hence with a good maf curve your commanded and actual should be with in thousandths of each other. The exception being during dfco, limits, traction control, or any ecu controlled fuel cut.

On the default chart scale of .5 to 1.5 the difference is hardly noticeable. I usually change it to .85 to 1.1 for partial throttle and .8 to 1 for Wot. It gives you a better picture of where your fueling is.

 

[Terminator2]

Your fueling is not good. You say these percentages but your charts show differently. During the wot it's obvious your commanded and actual are consistently off. Commanded .9 and actual .83. This is about 9% error and would be in your 100-200 period range right where you are getting your 47lb/min from. This is 9% rich so it tells me these maf numbers are to high. Remove 9% from 47 you get about 43. Richen it up to .85-.86 and you would see what these lund tune guys are seeing and with out the 9% error throwing off your IPW and hence your IDC. You would probably see closer to low to mid 80% DC. Then it becomes a question of injector life not so much engine safety.

An example of good commanded vs actual. .850 actual and .859 commanded. Take the .009 difference and divide by actual to get .010 multiply by 100 for 1%. Do this the other way .850 actual and .841 commanded you also get 1%. This gives you the 2% window you are shooting for with fueling. Hence with a good maf curve your commanded and actual should be with in thousandths of each other. The exception being during dfco, limits, traction control, or any ecu controlled fuel cut.

On the default chart scale of .5 to 1.5 the difference is hardly noticeable. I usually change it to .85 to 1.1 for partial throttle and .8 to 1 for Wot. It gives you a better picture of where your fueling is.

That commanded EQ PID doesn't read correctly at wide open even on my wife's car and hers is completely stock other than mufflers it's not tuned. It also doesn't read correctly on my neighbors stock 2016 focus RS so something is odd with it. It might work on the 11-14 but it doesn't on either of my 2016s. My PE lambda commanded is 0.85 and it hits right at 0.85 now that I fixed my stoich it was about 4% too rich for E-85 I had it set for E-90.

 

[RomanB]

I am sure Lund has sent out thousands of FF tunes... Haven't seen anyone make a post about catastrophic destruction caused by stock injectors and e85

 

[Terminator2]

HP tuners does not make the nGauge

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?55440-HP-Tuners-nGauge
Wrong

 

[Terminator2]

For what it's worth this concern has been discussed in detail in the Lund (Beefcake & Lethal) and Livernois threads when they started offering these tunes. Many people asked about the injectors and they answered/explained.

I'm sure anyone can reach out to those companies and ask directly.

People are free to do what they want but why risk your $7000 motor over a $250 set of injectors that will give you back the same safe fueling overhead as the stock injectors give on plain 91 or 93 gas? This is why i started this thread. I have zero to gain from it I don't tune anyone else's mustangs just mine. I'm just trying to help overt possible disaster for some. It's a thin line some are walking.

 

[stoli]

I wouldn't let that be the deciding factor to be honest.

When's the last time you saw ANY of the major tuners/companies on here sharing any sort of info?

Part of the reason is they have to pay just to come on here and answer questions...

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?55440-HP-Tuners-nGauge
Wrong

Wrong. HP Tuners licenses it, it is made by e-Motion Products.

 

[Jn2]

My offer still stands, if you are local to Austin, TX and are running one of these flex fuel or e85 tunes I will datalog your car for free. I don't even need to drive it, I can just ride passenger and do the logging.

This would literally take about 15-20mins, and most of that time is driving to a highway with a 85mph speed limit so you can do some good 2nd and 3rd WOT pulls with out the fear of speeding.

Sponsored