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MAV

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I like the idea of a pre-oiler and will look into it.
Not to be an ass, but why? If you're not using any oil but that specified by Ford engineers to avoid voiding the engine warranty, then why would you use an add-on component to the oiling system that wasn't specd by Ford engineers that could just as easily (and likely) void the warranty?
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Voodooo

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Not to be an ass, but why? If you're not using any oil but that specified by Ford engineers to avoid voiding the engine warranty, then why would you use an add-on component to the oiling system that wasn't specd by Ford engineers that could just as easily (and likely) void the warranty?
Using a accumulator is not a bad idea. That's why I mention it. Nothing wrong with using a accumulator to pre lube your engine, it may also save it in the case of oil starvation or if it loses oil psi do to air intake during hard cornering. It's cheap insurance. Once it's installed you really don't have to do anything to it. Especially if you get the electric solenoid valve. No car manufacturer is going to put everything on a car to inhance its performance or longevity.
 

MAV

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It's cheap insurance.
And so is using a lower viscosity oil in cold weather. The point is that it seems strange to defend the expertise of Ford engineers against a suggestion of others to use a different oil, while at the same time defending the personal choice to ignore their expertise and add an accumulator.

To each his own, I guess.
 

Voodooo

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And so is using a lower viscosity oil in cold weather. The point is that it seems strange to defend the expertise of Ford engineers against a suggestion of others to use a different oil, while at the same time defending the personal choice to ignore their expertise and add an accumulator.

To each his own, I guess.
The weight of oil has nothing to do with a oil accumulator. I'm not talking about oil grade or weight. Hell, most people think the "W" in the oil grade example 5W50 means weight. It means winter. Not weight.
 

Voodooo

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The reason for a oil accumulator is to pre lube the engine before engine start up, and to supply oil in the event the oil psi drops during driving. It has nothing to do with the grade or type of oil. I'm ok using the grade of oil the manufacturer recommends. Besides its a synthetic oil, if it was conventional oil that's another story.
 

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mustang_guy

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Understanding weights is one thing. Understanding WHY certain weights are recommended for this engine is another.

My take is that Ford put out a recommendation based on how they expected the car to be used. If using alternate weights was critical, they would have provided that info. I'm sure there are plenty of other weights that will work, depending on temperature range, application, oil change interval, etc.

I know my 350Z did have different recommendations based on typical ambient temperature ranges. I currently use Mobil 1 10W-30 and have had good success (car now has 194,000 miles). I will likely go with Mobil 1 5W-50 for the GT350.

-T
Oh you mean how the exact same engine in the coyote people were told need 5w20 but the pp called for 5w50? A car advertised for track, ford isnt going to tell those owners 5w20 is okay and let them go to the track and risk failure. 5w50 is too much pressure for a daily street driven car that runs errands or toots around town. They never gave those coyote pp 5w50 users an alternate weight and people have switched and the car is better off. Same for the 302 boss. This will be no different. Most people buy a track model car and never use it for its intended purpose. A weight suited for that purpose is better for the engine typically. Do you think most older M series owners needed 10w60? Absolutely not. 10w30 was fine. Its that whole intended purpose thing again. An i currently am a master tech at bmw. Current weight now is 5w30 even for M cars. It helps with fuel economy and they know so many people arent tracking their M cars. If a bmw needs thicker or thinner weight etc as long as it meets the current standard we wouldn't not warranty it.
It may be comical to you, but I'm just a risk averse kind of guy. I understand in theory what you are saying about oil weights, and I agree with some of what you say. I don't think not agreeing with you means someone is uneducated. IMO it means they think for themselves.

Bottom line for me is I don't want to void the warranty. I think Ford's recommendation is going to be good enough. In 3/36,000 or whenever my warranty is up I might start using something different if I still own the car.
I worked at ford during the time of the most recent 302 boss. I know what they will cover and wont. Here is a post of mine from another thread.

Ford does not maintain a list of API Certified oils. I can only give you information that I have from being a Ford owner and ex ford master tech. If you contact Ford regarding oil Ford is going to recommend Motorcraft. To get a different answer you have to talk to a company representative. If an issue can not be resolved thru the service manager you need to contact the Ford service representative for your area. This would not be the first time a dealership service manager has contradicted a manufactures policy. Also from experience I must of have a lot of luck because I have taken in my vehicles to have warranty service completed and each dealership did not even ask if I kept service records.

Also if you want to pay you can check the link below, a website that will go into detail of the WSS-M2C945-A specification.

http://infostore.saiglobal.com/store/Details.aspx?ProductID=1430718

As far as mc 5w50 its a sheering monster. Worse then anything ive ever seen. Its garbage.

Id like to share this for those that think amsoils 10w30 is too thick for 32 degrees http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/in...at-is-the-best-oil-to-use/page-2#entry1135426
 
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Nataphen

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And so is using a lower viscosity oil in cold weather. The point is that it seems strange to defend the expertise of Ford engineers against a suggestion of others to use a different oil, while at the same time defending the personal choice to ignore their expertise and add an accumulator.



To each his own, I guess.

I see what you're saying. Voodooo, he's not arguing with you. He's saying that people can't say "do exactly what the Ford engineers say because it's always the best for the car", or "use the recommended weight only because of warranty issues", but then they add an oil accumulator that wasn't factory installed and will most likely void an engine warranty.

People either fully trust the engineers, or they don't. They either don't want to risk the warranty, or they do. Adding an aftermarket oil accumulator will most likely void a warranty much quicker than using 5W-30 anyway.
 
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Anthony@HTM

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I highly doubt seeing anyone with a 350 needing an accusump.

Even the GT350R-C doesn't have one. Ford really pulled out all of the stops to make the oil pan baffled properly.

As far as priming the oil system, quality modern oils take care of that.

With my experience in racing I have learned to keep it simple, the more you add, the more there is to possibly go wrong.
 

Voodooo

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There is no harm in pre oiling any engine. I don't see why anyone is making a bigger deal out of this. I don't care what oil the person uses, when it is shut off their is no oil psi and the oil that is on the friction surface can benefit from a pre lube. I too am a strong user and believe in Amsoil, I've used their products for a very long time and I also use it in all my vehicles, tractors, compressors Etc. but even Amsoil won't stop a dry start. Ford only added a windage tray and baffles. That helps keep the oil in the sump of the pan. Not dry starts.
 

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I highly doubt seeing anyone with a 350 needing an accusump.

Even the GT350R-C doesn't have one. Ford really pulled out all of the stops to make the oil pan baffled properly.

As far as priming the oil system, quality modern oils take care of that.

With my experience in racing I have learned to keep it simple, the more you add, the more there is to possibly go wrong.
That's because the R-C has a dry-sump ;) -I agree that the accusump for oil starvation or pre-oiling is not necessary.

It's probably better to look at an oil's cSt (Kinematic) viscosity at 40*C & 100*C (104*F & 212*F) rather than the labeled 'weights', since a 0W40 can be thicker than a 10W30 at a 'cold' 40*C.

Motorcraft 5W50 is pretty thick at 136 cSt @40*C & 21 cSt @ 100*C and does not use much Phosphorous or Zinc and is heavy in Boron and some Moly -in similar quantities as Pennzoil Ultra.

Not many oils are heavier when you consider M1 15W50 is 125 cSt @40*C & 18 cSt @ 100*C. BMW V8 S65 & V10 S85 have similar redlines to the Voodoo and are spec'd with an even heavier Castrol TWS 10W60 (160 cSt @ 40*C & 22.7 cSt @ 100*C). Those motors have tight bearing tolerances and are prone to bearing failures and many owners have switched to a lighter M1 0W40 while others don't seem to have a problem, some of which say that they are religious with letting their cars warm up. It will be interesting to see how things play out for the Voodoo.

***With the high strung nature of the Voodoo, it's probably crucial to warm the engine up fully (especially with the Motorcraft 5W50) before beating on it and revving it high. IIRC, the GT350R-C also runs the factory oil so i'm sure its performance is pretty good. If you track your car, I might just stick with the proven Motorcraft and be patient with letting the car warm up.

I always cringe when I see videos of people revving their cars like mad right after a cold start :doh:
 

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mustang_guy

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That's because the R-C has a dry-sump ;) -I agree that the accusump for oil starvation or pre-oiling is not necessary.

It's probably better to look at an oil's cSt (Kinematic) viscosity at 40*C & 100*C (104*F & 212*F) rather than the labeled 'weights', since a 0W40 can be thicker than a 10W30 at a 'cold' 40*C.

Motorcraft 5W50 is pretty thick at 136 cSt @40*C & 21 cSt @ 100*C and does not use much Phosphorous or Zinc and is heavy in Boron and some Moly -in similar quantities as Pennzoil Ultra.

Not many oils are heavier when you consider M1 15W50 is 125 cSt @40*C & 18 cSt @ 100*C. BMW V8 S65 & V10 S85 have similar redlines to the Voodoo and are spec'd with an even heavier Castrol TWS 10W60 (160 cSt @ 40*C & 22.7 cSt @ 100*C). Those motors have tight bearing tolerances and are prone to bearing failures and many owners have switched to a lighter M1 0W40 while others don't seem to have a problem, some of which say that they are religious with letting their cars warm up. It will be interesting to see how things play out for the Voodoo.

***With the high strung nature of the Voodoo, it's probably crucial to warm the engine up fully (especially with the Motorcraft 5W50) before beating on it and revving it high. IIRC, the GT350R-C also runs the factory oil so i'm sure its performance is pretty good. If you track your car, I might just stick with the proven Motorcraft and be patient with letting the car warm up.

I always cringe when I see videos of people revving their cars like mad right after a cold start :doh:
You know that 5w50 mc is some of the worst oil on the market in that weight right? If you like running an oil that sheers down to 5w40 in 1000 miles or less. You run that garbage.:lol:
 

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You know that 5w50 mc is some of the worst oil on the market in that weight right? If you like running an oil that sheers down to 5w40 in 1000 miles or less. You run that garbage.:lol:
The engine was designed to use it and it's raced successfully with it, so... :shrug:

Good point. I've seen two UOAs of the 5W50 Motorcraft in GT500s with 1,400 & 4,000mi on the clock with 100*C cSt of: 13.88 & 15.06 (right in the 40W range). I'd like to think the Ford engineers know that find it acceptable for the viscosity to be thicker when new or equivalent to a 40wt when old. On that note, it may not be a terrible idea to use a 40wt oil that has a lower cSt at 40*C.

FWIW - the BMW Castrol TWS 10W60 shears down to a 50wt.
 

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The engine was designed to use it and it's raced successfully with it, so... :shrug:

Good point. I've seen two UOAs of the 5W50 Motorcraft in GT500s with 1,400 & 4,000mi on the clock with 100*C cSt of: 13.88 & 15.06 (right in the 40W range). I'd like to think the Ford engineers know that find it acceptable for the viscosity to be thicker when new or equivalent to a 40wt when old. On that note, it may not be a terrible idea to use a 40wt oil that has a lower cSt at 40*C.

FWIW - the BMW Castrol TWS 10W60 shears down to a 50wt.
The engine was designed for race tracks. 95% of them will not be used as intended so to use an oil that was intended for racing, on the street that giving you very high oil pressure is stupid. The only time motorcrafts oil is acceptable is in non performance vehicle's. Bmw german castrol wasnt that great either. People should either use pennzoil ultra if they cant afford amsoil, if they can use it. If someone has a need for an 5w50 the last thing you want it to do is sheer down to a 40. You want it to do its job and give you that protection. Motorcraft is garbage. This is the blood of your car, not something you trust to a synthetic blend or improper weights for the intended usage. /thread
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