Mid Corner Throttle?

[Shadow277]

The question really is what should I do mid corner? I thought mid corner was for trail braking but here's the detail:
Exotics Racing in Vegas.
Porsche 911 GT3
Instructor told me to use more throttle mid corner. I thought mid corner was for trail braking? Was my entry speed not fast enough and warrents throttle?

Randy Pobst has tips for people going to the track. One of them is that he says the throttle pedal is the fire arm trigger. Pull the trigger omly when you're pointed at the target. A little bit of power can be required to stabilize the car.

Which should I take away for my GT? Are both correct due to situations?

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[LxMike]

Maybe you did need more speed?? Both could be right depending on the situation...

 

[Brian@BMVK]

https://www.beyondseattime.com/our-courses/the-complete-track-drivers-manual/

 

[Grafanton]

 

[NightmareMoon]

That Beyond Seat Time class will go into case by case situations. The answer is “it depends”. Different corner shapes require different approaches.

GTs like a bit of maintenance throttle (all things being equal). Your instructor may have also been trying to keep you from lifting too much and getting trailing throttle oversteer too.

 

[shogun32]

I roll out of the throttle and maybe a touch of brake as I start turn in but I'm on the gas by no later than 40% of arc (slowly increasing or steady) and by final third I'm adding more throttle long before I'm pointing at the exit trajectory. Then again I drive my car like I do my bikes.

slow in, but accelerate at least 70% of the arc. >80% is better. If I roll off mid-corner I'm either chicken or my entry speed was too fast, or I added too much throttle earlier in the arc. I do not subscribe to point and shoot riding/driving. I never stomp on the brake or the gas. It's always a roll into it - in contrast with say the Car&Driver Fastest Lap videos where the driver was stomping (instant 0-100%) on the gas many times during the lap.

A vehicle under power is a predictable and stable platform.

 

[Shadow277]

That Beyond Seat Time class will go into case by case situations. The answer is “it depends”. Different corner shapes require different approaches.

GTs like a bit of maintenance throttle (all things being equal). Your instructor may have also been trying to keep you from lifting too much and getting trailing throttle oversteer too.

Vegas has some tight corners. Before driving I told him oversteer still frightens me because I've been told it is difficult to correct. He did have me go into a turn with too much oversteer.
The Army taught me "prepare for the worst and hope for the best."

 

[Shadow277]

https://www.beyondseattime.com/our-courses/the-complete-track-drivers-manual/

Who recieves the praise for working on this class? Credentials?

 

[shogun32]

The Army taught me "prepare for the worst and hope for the best."

short of deliberate engineering choices, IMO oversteering is a direct consequence of ham-fisted driving. Driving is subtle. I like when Randy is on camera and he's got a light 2-finger (virtual) hold while he makes steering wheel motions. You're caressing a baby bottom, not stomping a snake dead.

Just like one takes 'death' into their hands by deliberately putting their light aircraft into a spin, so to learn the sensation and mechanics of recovery, so too should be inducing OS and then recovering from it.

 

[Shadow277]

I roll out of the throttle and maybe a touch of brake as I start turn in but I'm on the gas by no later than 40% of arc (slowly increasing or steady) and by final third I'm adding more throttle long before I'm pointing at the exit trajectory. Then again I drive my car like I do my bikes.

slow in, but accelerate at least 70% of the arc. >80% is better. If I roll off mid-corner I'm either chicken or my entry speed was too fast, or I added too much throttle earlier in the arc. I do not subscribe to point and shoot riding/driving. I never stomp on the brake or the gas. It's always a roll into it - in contrast with say the Car&Driver Fastest Lap videos where the driver was stomping (instant 0-100%) on the gas many times during the lap.

A vehicle under power is a predictable and stable platform.

Interesting. I'm not trying to race my 250cc Honda but I would love to know it's limits to help me avoid an accidient in traffic.

 

[Brian@BMVK]

Who recieves the praise for working on this class? Credentials?

Vivek Goel is the creator. His autocross course is fantastic also.

 

[shogun32]

Interesting. I'm not trying to race my 250cc Honda but I would love to know it's limits to help me avoid an accidient in traffic.

take it to the track. The more you ride the more you expand your comfort zone and can pickup on vehicle cues. Smooth is fast. Yank'n and Bank'n' is for F16 fighter jets.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Who recieves the praise for working on this class? Credentials?

https://www.beyondseattime.com/about/

Vivek has wins at SCCA Solo national events, is a frequent course designer for SCCA solo nationals and regional events, and he’s one hell of a driver.

I found the course much more advanced than the usual stuff.

 

[TeeLew]

Randy Pobst has tips for people going to the track. One of them is that he says the throttle pedal is the fire arm trigger. Pull the trigger omly when you're pointed at the target. A little bit of power can be required to stabilize the car.

Which should I take away for my GT? Are both correct due to situations?

Don't take this wrong, but if Exotic Driver guy was any good, he wouldn't be there. Randy will have much better advice.

Speaking in broad generalities, let's separate corners by gear. There are no first or sixth gear corners, but 2nd & 3rd are low speed and 4th-5th high speed.

In low speed corners, if you have to go to maintenance throttle, then you've probably overslowed the entry. In high speed corners, if you don't have some amount of throttle, you're probably too slow. In both situations, it creates understeer. *Everyone* is faster in a high speed road course corner with a little understeer, even the ones who claim otherwise.

TeeLew-ism #1: In a low speed corner, the point at which you initiate throttle is insignificant. The point at which you reach full throttle is vital. Generally speaking, the earlier in the corner you initiate the throttle, the later you will achieve full. Patience with the initial application will almost always pay dividends by allowing a more rapid application. Zero-to-full throttle should take on the order of 1 second. If you have to 'catch' the rear with the throttle to avoid spinning, the car has too much oversteer and needs a chassis adjustment to provide a better rear end.

 

[NightmareMoon]

I roll out of the throttle and maybe a touch of brake as I start turn in but I'm on the gas by no later than 40% of arc (slowly increasing or steady) and by final third I'm adding more throttle long before I'm pointing at the exit trajectory. Then again I drive my car like I do my bikes.

slow in, but accelerate at least 70% of the arc. >80% is better. If I roll off mid-corner I'm either chicken or my entry speed was too fast, or I added too much throttle earlier in the arc. I do not subscribe to point and shoot riding/driving. I never stomp on the brake or the gas. It's always a roll into it - in contrast with say the Car&Driver Fastest Lap videos where the driver was stomping (instant 0-100%) on the gas many times during the lap.

A vehicle under power is a predictable and stable platform.

Yeah, but how wide is the road, what angle is the corner, what’s it’s radius, elevation, camber.. these things determine how much room you have to work with and ultimately if you need to hold a constant radius for any length of time. If you’re having to hold a constant radius for a moment, you’re probably on maintenance throttle. Wide roads or low angle corners you may transition from releasing the brake directly to gradually applying more and more throttle...

... “it depends”

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