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Magneride

Michael_vroomvroom

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Compared to what? I am not debating whether the car is wiggly in track mode but just curious what you are comparing to. It seems we only have a few choices on a Mustang. Stock GT, PP1, PP2, PP1 & 2 with Magneride, or modified aftermarket suspension. It seems to me with my limited exposer to these options that Magneride would be less wiggly then all options except modified aftermarket suspension. But that option would likely eliminate the adjustability that Magneride gives you. Am I wrong?
For aftermarket there is also the magneride handling pack from Ford Performance (https://www.levittownfordparts.com/sku/m-9602-m.html, message Mr. Benny here for a free shipping coupon), which would retain electronic adjustability. I have those parts in my garage and I'm (kind of) locking forward to installing them.
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cactus_kid

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I was thinking about that as I was typing but figured most of this discussion was dealing with 2020 and older.
OT however .................... "Thinking by politicians is the root cause of all evil !" :clap:
 

cactus_kid

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"My coffee comes in 24oz and has a straw so probably not the same level of test.
(Edited for simplicity .........):)
Bro, you gots ta stay away from dat "Sebem Elevuin." Youse gonna kill yo self drink'n der coffee. De wacos in CA claims da kups gots canzer caus'n chit in 'em ! :crazy: 🙄
 

btcarmd

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a bit too 'firm'. But my coffee comes in 24oz and has a straw so probably not the same level of test.

With good and proper suspension the road disappears under you because the compression stroke is supple and the rebound lets the energy out quickly but not so fast that it overcorrects. Small impacts and rolling undulations should have little chassis effects. Larger impacts should feel like a muffled thump and it's ok to feel it in one's bum but it shouldn't cause the hood to jerk upward or the rear to undulate in sympathy. You also don't want to feel the wheels skipping/stuttering over bumps and imperfections.

Come on up to NoVA (Springfield, Manassas) and try the car for yourself. Or if you're north of US33 I can come to you. If you're north of I-64 you'll have to beg a little harder. :)

The Magneride is better than mine on sharp-edged impacts and also more compliant on undulations. I want to test it on some local G-outs and my little test loop, but need to bribe @NoVaGT for more seat time. Maybe I'll just "borrow" his car while he's not looking. But where it doesn't do as well is controlling chassis on recovery.

I drove the MR car back to back with mine down a series of 2-lane I'm familiar with and the difference was apparent. If my benchmark was a bog-standard GT, I'd probably be singing MR's praises like a choir boy. I had a choice to buy MR and declined (after several back to back drives of otherwise identical cars - yes, 2 identical N4G EB PP1 at the same dealership) because I wasn't apprised (at the time) of the DSC controller, and the difference just wasn't good enough. But an extra $1600 for DSC and unfinished maps is a very tall order. I also test drove a GT350 several times and could compare it back to back with a SS/1LE and the superiority of the Camaro's MR tuning was painfully obvious.
I am on rt211 about 15 minutes west of Warrenton. About 40 minutes from Manassas.
 

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TeeLew

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I'm guessing the DSC in Ford and Chevrolet is different as I know for a fact the DSC in the C8 is Bosch and I doubt Ford spend that kind of money for the Mustang. With that been said I doubt you can get sensible spring rate to plant the front with normal shocks hint 1000 rear spring is not the answer to S550 problems if you look into Mach 1 spring rates even Ford got down on spring rates Mach 1 Base is less rear spring than PP1 and Mach 1 HP is a bit more than PP1 but you have 20% more front spring. And no more front spring will not introduce understeer. If you are unhappy with the DR springs try ether 200/800 springs or BMR083 250/914 (GT350) rates both of this if linear will work better than your DR 350/1200 springs.
I wonder if your car is oversteering sliding with that much rebound and spring rate in the rear ?
The 'DSC' aftermarket controller is very similar for each, but the stock controllers might be significantly different. I don't know who produces the Ford controller. I assumed the controller was produced by BWI/Magneride as well as the dampers, but it doesn't surprise me that Bosch produces a controller as well. I imagine that would be the at the top levels in terms of function, complexity & price. Having said this, I suspect the tuning is at least as big of a variable as the hardware being tuned.

You bring up an interesting point on spring rates. Spring rates influence the handling balance of a car, but they don't define it. Two cars can be running significantly different rates, but run very similar lap times. We must consider all the spices in the soup. Also, don't discount the influence of the driver, the single biggest variable involved.
 

Egparson202

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The 'DSC' aftermarket controller is very similar for each, but the stock controllers might be significantly different. I don't know who produces the Ford controller. I assumed the controller was produced by BWI/Magneride as well as the dampers, but it doesn't surprise me that Bosch produces a controller as well. I imagine that would be the at the top levels in terms of function, complexity & price. Having said this, I suspect the tuning is at least as big of a variable as the hardware being tuned.

You bring up an interesting point on spring rates. Spring rates influence the handling balance of a car, but they don't define it. Two cars can be running significantly different rates, but run very similar lap times. We must consider all the spices in the soup. Also, don't discount the influence of the driver, the single biggest variable involved.

@TeeLew
Looking at the Ford options available to us for MR-equipped S550’s, which spring/damper/swaybar combo do you think is best suited for a track-focused car? And does the availability of the DSC Sport unit change the answer?
 

TeeLew

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@TeeLew
Looking at the Ford options available to us for MR-equipped S550’s, which spring/damper/swaybar combo do you think is best suited for a track-focused car? And does the availability of the DSC Sport unit change the answer?
I really can't answer that question with any confidence. There are just too many variables and I've only been able to evaluate what I have done to my own car. Here are some thoughts in no particular order:

  • I think increasing the front spring rate is a good way to speed up the response of the front end without increasing understeer. If anything, as I increase front spring rate, I have found better front grip (somewhat counterintuitive). Keep in mind, my front end is only at 275-300 #/in, so not terribly stiff. If I were to choose a stock-type front spring, I would be on the Steeda Dual-Rate at 350 #/in, but I've never driven on this spring, so I might change my tune if I did.
  • I think the stock Magneride controller (even in track mode) will be overpowered by that Steeda spring, but I believe there is a Ford Performance reflash of the stock damper controller that might increase damping enough to keep things happy?
  • I'm converting a set of 350R front struts to a coil-over to allow me to use racing springs and higher rates. These struts have much greater damping capacity than the standard version, so I'm not worried about a lack of damping. I'm starting with 450 #/in springs when they go on the car. Clearly this is not an effort I'd go through if I though a soft-ish front spring was the best option.
  • The rear spring choice is more controversial than the front. I personally like to keep the rear spring at the bottom of the window, but I'm in a minority (& might very well be on the wrong path altogether). The Magneride rear springs are counter wound to keep friction similar on both sides, so standard rear springs don't fit our cars and I don't know the rates/drops of any of the Magneride specific options. In an effort to open up my rear spring selection, I installed the Mike Maier rear spring mount kit, which allows the use of 2.5x6 racing springs and gives the ability to adjust rear ride height. I've run three rear springs (~725 stock, 950 and 850 #/in). I am hesitant that the rear springs I see people running (1200+ #/in) reduces compliance and grip more than understeer, but many people swear by these rates. Once I get my front spring sorted, I'll throw a big rear spring at it just to see how it acts. This is really the only way to draw an informed conclusion. I will say that I don't have the feeling that increasing the rear spring will be a gain, but that's a combination of my personal bias and butt-o-meter, not anything objective.
  • Does the DSC Controller change things? Yes. The stock package is pretty good, but it's much more street oriented than track. I think it's bloody brilliant on the street, but it's performance tuning is only moderately stiffer (IMO) and not really up to controlling a significantly stiffer spring package. I also think the stock damper mapping is a little too conservative in terms of handling balance. Ford seems to always leave a healthy dose of understeer. Incidentally, the different models have different tuning. The tuning on a GT350R is meant to be pretty damned good. The tuning on my Eco isn't bad, but it's much more street oriented.
  • Front anti-roll bar selection is fairly uniform. Most people are running a 34 or 35mm FARB. I personally like driving a car with a lot of front roll stiffness. If I were a more disciplined driver, I could put up with a slower responding front end, but I'm not. I am running the 35mm BMR front bar. Magneride cars can't run the stiffest mounting hole due to fouling the mounting bracket. I run 1 hole off full stiff. I think I might make my own FARB this winter to be able to try other options.
  • Rear anti-roll bar selection is all over the place. My car came with a 24mm RARB, but I felt that was hurting corner exit wheelspin, so I reduced it to 20mm (off a base V6 car). I need to test them back and forth on the same day. To be completely honest, I think you could make the car work with just about any rear bar from disconnected to 25mm. (When the RARB is disconnected, the car loses a lot of rear roll control and directional response, but the ass of the car is stuck like shit to a blanket, so it's not without advantages if you have don't have a lot of quick transitions). It would depend on your other tuning choices. There are several Ford RARB options, which you can usually find cheap. If I were going aftermarket, I'd probably go with the Eibach or Pedders version because they're on the softer end of the window on the rear and the stiffer end of the window on the front.

So there is some info to chew on. Let me encourage you to listen to several of the voices here, though, because many have gone through a lot more testing that I have. My main claim to fame here is DSC damper tuning, but I'm _not_ any sort of overall S550 chassis authority.
 

TeeLew

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  • I'm converting a set of 350R front struts to a coil-over to allow me to use racing springs and higher rates. These struts have much greater damping capacity than the standard version, so I'm not worried about a lack of damping. I'm starting with 450 #/in springs when they go on the car. Clearly this is not an effort I'd go through if I though a soft-ish front spring was the best option.
Or just drop the MR all together by a set of Coilovers put 650/1200 (stock rear location) springs and call it a day for track car ?
This is why I think Ohlins 515/800 is one of the best options from the market.
 

cactus_kid

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You're hard-pressed to find a worse group.
Even out of state sadly. what is up with the left hand lane riding ? Worse, they are driving slower than the posted limit. :explode:
 

TeeLew

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Or just drop the MR all together by a set of Coilovers put 650/1200 (stock rear location) springs and call it a day for track car ?
This is why I think Ohlins 515/800 is one of the best options from the market.
Ya, if you look back at either this or one of the other Magneride threads, I mentioned exactly this. I've been a fan of Ohlins dampers for a _long_ time. The kit costs about $3500 USD. For a track only car, you get a pretty nice piece of kit. The car does lose some of its street manners, but it's a great option.
 

TeeLew

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Even out of state sadly. what is up with the left hand lane riding ? Worse, they are driving slower than the posted limit. :explode:
There's nothing CA drivers love better than driving 4-wide door handle-to-door handle down the freeway while going 3 mph below the speed limit.
 

gadgtfreek

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I've got a 2019 PP2, and magnaride is great. Its obvious how Sport+ works vs normal, especially in bumpy areas as well as tightening up the car. Anyone that claims it doesn't work is either an idiot or never owned it.

You gotta watch out for a few people on this forum that love to spout BS constantly in threads. I thought this would be different from a Honda forum I came from due to the nature of this car, but it ain't... Same car trolls everywhere.
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