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Norm Peterson

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I agree efficiency usually isn't fun Norm. But fun comes at a price.
Call it the price of your driving entertainment.

Fun drags an ICE car down into the teens or lower twenties for MPG. Fun drags range down in an EV as well. Have a daily driver that's efficient and a second car that's fun. There's the compromise.
I guess there are some people who can do that, but I'm not one of them. A modicum of efficiency as long as not too much fun is sacrificed is one thing, but the fun part has to still be stronger than the efficiency thing.

I'm from a time where 15 mpg highway for the average family car was on the high side of average, so with my '08 GT getting a bit over 25 and the WRX reaching for mid-30's sits just fine with me. In town, they're less, but I'm not wired to simply select 'Drive' or whatever it's called in EVs and mindlessly proceed toward my destination. Even the 4-mile trips to the grocery store and the big-box hardware emporiums are worth finding a little fun in.


Norm
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speedfrk

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Most families will still have multiple cars. Every house in my neighborhood has 3 or 4 vehicles in the driveway. The electric car will be for commuting and trips you can make on a full charge. All EV's have the option for at home night time charging. The grid has lots of excess capacity at night, so not a problem yet, but maybe in the future. Most people will never need to charge away from home except for rare occasions. I reserved an EV F150 already since the 230 mile range will cover 99% of my driving. If I need to go further, I can rent or fly. I'm betting Ford will require their dealers to install fast chargers now that the F150 is going electric so people can stop and get 50% charge in about 15 min. and, all of this will continue to evolve and get better. Look how far computers and cell phones have come in 10 years. Technology never stands still if there is money to be made. C&D did a total cost of ownership on a couple of cars and it was a wash, but mostly because of depreciation.
https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32494027/ev-vs-gas-cheaper-to-own/
 

NoVaGT

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Oh... by the way. Back to your "game changing" 4 cylinder. The company was funded up until Covid but lost that funding. At this point, all this "game changing" 4 cylinder is, is a pipe dream or failed Kickstarter campaign... your choice.

There's also a few issues with this. Harmonics and engine balance come to mind so the engine doesn't shake the chassis into oblivion. Cost to produce comes to mind. Cost to consumer comes to mind. The sheer weight of high displacement 4 cylinder pistons limits the rpm they can spin at. In order to get their claimed horsepower figures, one would think they would need even more displacement out of this motor. In the ballpark of 12 or 13 liters. It just isn't feasible. There is just too much missing.

If you want big power out of a 4 cylinder, the only way is forced induction. That's it.
So....you didn't watch the video at all? Not a bit of it? Where everything you're talking about is addressed.....in detail. In engineering terms??

Anyways.....their initial funding went really well, but nothing has happened so far. Fingers crossed it wasn't some BS scam.
 
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Ewheels

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Even the 4-mile trips to the grocery store and the big-box hardware emporiums are worth finding a little fun in.


Norm
I have a 20 year old Toyota as a daily driver and I still enter wide, apex, and track out every turn I can :cwl:
 

dfanucci

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We can do this all day, but at the end of the day your mind was already made up so nothing in this world is going to change it. I used to hate EVs with a passion. I believed all the hate thrown at them was true. But a lot of research changed my mind, including some YouTube (particularly Engineering Explained).

I have pictures too!

fracking_1.jpg


5a4f7d68-gp1su9nb-1024x576.jpg


gettyimages-101618922.jpg


See what all oil has done?


Oh... by the way. Back to your "game changing" 4 cylinder. The company was funded up until Covid but lost that funding. At this point, all this "game changing" 4 cylinder is, is a pipe dream or failed Kickstarter campaign... your choice.

There's also a few issues with this. Harmonics and engine balance come to mind so the engine doesn't shake the chassis into oblivion. Cost to produce comes to mind. Cost to consumer comes to mind. The sheer weight of high displacement 4 cylinder pistons limits the rpm they can spin at. In order to get their claimed horsepower figures, one would think they would need even more displacement out of this motor. In the ballpark of 12 or 13 liters. It just isn't feasible. There is just too much missing.

If you want big power out of a 4 cylinder, the only way is forced induction. That's it.
So you're saying that your way of destruction is better than the destruction currently taking place?

Got it.

It's comments like these and the absolute blindingly stupid "yeah but" discussions that show just how narrow minded people are.
 

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Call it the price of your driving entertainment.


I guess there are some people who can do that, but I'm not one of them. A modicum of efficiency as long as not too much fun is sacrificed is one thing, but the fun part has to still be stronger than the efficiency thing.

I'm from a time where 15 mpg highway for the average family car was on the high side of average, so with my '08 GT getting a bit over 25 and the WRX reaching for mid-30's sits just fine with me. In town, they're less, but I'm not wired to simply select 'Drive' or whatever it's called in EVs and mindlessly proceed toward my destination. Even the 4-mile trips to the grocery store and the big-box hardware emporiums are worth finding a little fun in.


Norm
I agree, what's life without fun. When the GT trim level goes away or converts from V8 to Electric, Ford will have to have some incentive for people. I'm guessing speakers for fake exhaust sounds and a crap load of horsepower and torque along with attractive, sleek styling. I'm a little worried to see the price difference though. Mustangs have been subject to price creep. It will only get worse.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm going to try to keep my GT for the experience as long as I can. Even if that means eventually having an electric car (that's affordable) as a daily.
 

Ebm

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So you're saying that your way of destruction is better than the destruction currently taking place?

Got it.

It's comments like these and the absolute blindingly stupid "yeah but" discussions that show just how narrow minded people are.
This isn't about me. It never was. This is about us. The world as a whole. It's about the inevitable evolution of our lives. And yes, you are trading one evil for another. A lesser evil. You have an opinion, we all do. Narrow minded is thinking we should stay in the dark ages with oil. If you aren't advancing, you are going backwards. This is the next logical step forwards. If you have a better option, I'd love to hear it. You'd be a rich man too! :like:
 

Norm Peterson

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Narrow minded is thinking we should stay in the dark ages with oil.
Isn't it equally narrow-minded to want everybody to be equally accepting of change away from oil? That oil can no longer have any place whatsoever in powering our vehicles? All-or-nothing/my-way-or-the-highway thinking cuts both ways without prejudice.


Norm
 

Ebm

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Isn't it equally narrow-minded to want everybody to be equally accepting of change away from oil? That oil can no longer have any place whatsoever in powering our vehicles? All-or-nothing/my-way-or-the-highway thinking cuts both ways without prejudice.


Norm
Doesn't matter. It is inevitable. Don't you see how other countries are moving forward? We are following suit as several of our car manufacturers are going all EV in a decade.

I guess you've heard the saying the only constant is change. It's true. There will be some changes we don't like. I know that for sure. But this world isn't meant for change for one person. The Utilitarian Principle (Utilitarianism) comes to mind. You don't have to worry as much as the future generations do. The choices your generation made in the past are finally showing consequences. It will only get worse with time.
 

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NoVaGT

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Doesn't matter. It is inevitable. Don't you see how other countries are moving forward? We are following suit as several of our car manufacturers are going all EV in a decade.

I guess you've heard the saying the only constant is change. It's true. There will be some changes we don't like. I know that for sure. But this world isn't meant for change for one person. The Utilitarian Principle (Utilitarianism) comes to mind. You don't have to worry as much as the future generations do. The choices your generation made in the past are finally showing consequences. It will only get worse with time.
1622829371415.png
 
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FinitePrimus

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And here we have folks believe that, with a 280,000,000 vehicles registered in the US today, we're going to change to EVs in 5, or maybe 10 years? Even 15 or 20 years?

And how are we going to power 280,000,000 EVs, exactly?

Where are the raw materials for the batteries coming from?
Spot on! Everything we have on this planet, comes from this planet. It's all resources. The only way to manage even the electricity requirements without polluting will be nuclear. People don't like nuclear that much. Batteries, solar panels, electronics, silicon, it all comes from the earth. We are just stopping mining of one resource to mine another. It's not infinite.

I think the future will rely on many different technologies combined to drive the results. You will still have ICE but likely running new alternative fuels and highly efficient engines powered by technology. You will see electric cars. You will see ride sharing turn into self-driving cars on demand (less cars required means more expensive technology can power them).

Anyone who thinks the world can simply switch over from ICE to EV and all our problems are solved doesn't understand what an EV requires.
 

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When the first ICE vehicles first arrived, there only needed to be gas stations for...wait for it.....a few vehicles. There was little demand. The infrastructure for vehicles (a lot more than just gas station) has taken 100+ years to build. Gradually, as demand grew.

For electricity and water, transportation, all those things have grown over the last 150 + years, as the US population/demand grew.

And here we have folks believe that, with a 280,000,000 vehicles registered in the US today, we're going to change to EVs in 5, or maybe 10 years? Even 15 or 20 years?

And how are we going to power 280,000,000 EVs, exactly?

Where are the raw materials for the batteries coming from?

And that's just here in the US, not the rest of the world. Which is also currently riding a retard's wave of popular opinion that Greta Thunberg is the 2nd coming of Henry Ford.
At this point, you are being just stubborn for the sake of being stubborn. The same way I don't speculate on how we're going to do a catch-return using the SpaceX Starship with it's slew of Raptor engines, my expertise is not the power grid nor technology that has yet been invented.

I'm sure, 100 years ago, there was a guy exactly like you who said the same thing. But you know what is the 2nd biggest motivator to the American economy? Demand. Period.

Just like 20 years ago when we could not conceive battery technology that could propel a 5000lb vehicle forward, let alone for hundreds of miles on a single charge, there will be more innovation in the next 20 years that we cannot forsee today.

I fully admitted that we do not have the infrastructure to replace all ICE vehicles on the road today. That's not even a realistic problem to spend mental energy on. However, I'm pretty confident that where money and demand are involved, we'll find a solution. For example, solid state batteries are extremely promising and even developed in small scale already.

Solid-State Batteries | What You Need to Know about This EV Tech (autoweek.com)
Also, Thorium-based molten salt nuclear reactors are coming online and a cheaper, easier to source fuel for, and don't produce waste like our current nuclear solutions:
ANEEL: Thorium-Based Reactor Fuel Could Support A New Wave Of Nuclear Power (forbes.com)

Just because you can't envision it, doesn't mean there aren't visionaries working on it.
 

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Here in Atlanta, its Dodge Charger and Challenger owners. Mustang drivers doesn't have the lock on stupidity.
Yeah that and middle-aged white men in pickups.

Actually, during my 0500 commute, it's always me and another dude in nice Scat Pack Challenger getting in the way of the NASCAR field of pickups racing each other to be the first person waiting at the lights. The lights along my commute are all synced and traffic is light at that time. You'll get all green lights if you put the tiniest bit of thought into it.
 

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How is the range/mobility problem going to be solved? I have a hybrid (volt); ev works great but the biggest obstacle in the states I see is the way our country is setup as far as the distances. There are a couple areas of the country where it doesn't matter. Range and recharge time don't seem to be something that can be solved soon. The reason I got a volt rather than a bolt was the few trips a year we might take in it that require more than a couple hundred miles of travel. As one post above I too have multiple vehicles to satisfy multiple roles, probably could have gotten a full electric but then my wife would be limited. Not to mention my wife, who I love dearly, might loose her head if it wasn't connected to her shoulders. You have to plug an ev in, she is good but not 100%. Currently most middle america young families can make it work with a volt (though they stopped production) but a very significant portion could not go pure EV. Not for everyday, but for the occasional use. Road trips, family vacations, emergency evacuations, and so on. Not everyone can afford to get on an airplane and just fly somewhere. I know technology does evolve and will get better but this seems to be the biggest hurdle. There is a limit that will not be able to be overcome, not sure we found that yet (just like on ICE it can only do so much, mpg really hasn't improved that much in the last 40 years).

What do we do with the trucking industry?
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