Looking for input from A10 owners

[PoCoBob]

Most modern cars don't have a traditional dipstick for the transmission because in order to work properly they need to create a vacuum inside them. A dipstick would be an air leak. Chrysler mini vans are famous for transmission trouble that can be fixed by tightening the oil pan bolts back up.

I have an 2019 and I asked about a software update and it only applies to the 2018's. Mine shifts harsh in S+ and Track mode, really hard, so most of the time I drive in Normal. When I get the urge for some fun I put into something more aggressive but usually put it back in Normal when I'm done.

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[Qcman17]

My car is super smooth in normal D but can be harsh or jerky in 3-4 & 4-5 in S S+ and Track but track is better i find overall. I had the fluid checked last time it was at my dealer they said it was normal as was my trans operation.

One thing the shop foreman told me is they all are a bit weird like that. He said if he had only ever driven one he'd think it wasn't right but having driven countless cars they all behave in this way basically.

I've resigned myself to the fact its the nature of the beast and I love the car despite some quirks.

 

[MNstang]

My car is super smooth in normal D but can be harsh or jerky in 3-4 & 4-5 in S S+ and Track but track is better i find overall. I had the fluid checked last time it was at my dealer they said it was normal as was my trans operation.

One thing the shop foreman told me is they all are a bit weird like that. He said if he had only ever driven one he'd think it wasn't right but having driven countless cars they all behave in this way basically.

I've resigned myself to the fact its the nature of the beast and I love the car despite some quirks.

Thank you for your reply. I am thinking I will get the fluid checked and then leave it alone. The fact that my trans shifts well in Normal mode makes me think that it is probably just a normal characteristic of the A10 to be harsh in sport mode. Like I mentioned above - I don't mind the harder shifts but there are some gears that seem to shift way harder than others in sport mode...

 

[Qcman17]

Thank you for your reply. I am thinking I will get the fluid checked and then leave it alone. The fact that my trans shifts well in Normal mode makes me think that it is probably just a normal characteristic of the A10 to be harsh in sport mode. Like I mentioned above - I don't mind the harder shifts but there are some gears that seem to shift way harder than others in sport mode...

Agreed that is essentially what I find too they aren't all the same force which one would expect. If you have the drive modes give track mode a try I am finding I like it the most in this regard. And as you note if normal D is smooth and Sport is more harsh it doesn't seem like a mechanical issue so much as a programming one.

I have not tried a KAM reset in part because there are specific things that should be done when driving the car after that is done. Shifting at certain speeds, RPMs or whatever. The shop foreman advised me not to have them reset the trans as he said it may make it seem worse. Hard to say if that is true but I decided to leave well enough alone. He also told me there were no updates available for my car too.

But I agree get the fluid checked in any case as it may give you some peace of mind. I know it did for me.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Thank you for your input. I'm hoping to hear from more A10 owners just to confirm. Hopefully Cobra Jet will chime in - he seems to really know a lot about these transmissions.

Ok so, if you're experiencing harsh shifts or abnormal shifts during any cycling of the gears - whether starting from a stop and letting the box do the shifting, while coming to a stop OR putting the car into reverse from Park, it could be:

1) Low fluid - has been a common theme for all 2018+ with a 10R80. In that very large thread you mention, there is a FACT section. In the section discussing the 10R80 fluid level and dipstick - it's mentioned how to check the level and also the differences between 10R80 dipsticks. A DIYer can check the fluid level, but as others have noted on this site, it can be a PIA. There's no rhyme or reason as to why some 10R80's are properly filled and why others are found to be low.

2) Valve body - hardware - this is another common theme for an issue that caused harsh shifts but seems to have been more prevalent in the 2018's (being the first year the 10R80 was in a Mustang). A KAM reset (software) will not fix a hardware issue at all. You can do KAM resets until doomsday, if the harsh shift exists after a fluid check AND a KAM reset, there's a hardware issue.

KAM reset as noted above will only work providing there are no hardware issues AND that the "relearn" procedure is followed to the T. The relearn process is important and also outlined in the main 10R80 thread. It's important that the relearn is done exactly as described from the Facts section links. If the relearn is not followed (by a DIYer OR actual Ford Tech) then yes, there could be shift issues after a KAM reset.

As I have always recommended to other 10R80 owners, if the car is still covered under the new car 3/36, the 5/60 Powertrain OR a Ford ESP, definitely take the car to your closest Service Center. Request to take a Tech, Service Writer OR Shop Foreman on a decent test drive (not around the block) to demonstrate the shifting concerns. Then let them drive it back to the shop. Don't just drop it off with a "it's not shifting correctly" and leave... Always try to demo the issue to them and let them experience it with you.

As far as actual 10R80 software revisions or updates are concerned, it's my understanding that IF a 10R80 needs to be reflashed, there has to be a current software revision available. The Tech will only reflash IF they determine that your As Built has a lower software revision than what is available through Ford IDS. They're not going to reflash for no reason at all. If the software revision numbers are the same - some might do a reflash after a KAM reset, some may not.

I do not know what the most current 10R80 software version is, so if someone can lost it up, it's appreciated.

I also know that if the valve body has to be replaced they are required to flash the software to the most current version, regardless of model year. The valve body contains codes on it which have to be input or matched for Ford IDS when doing a reflash. I think this is outlined in another thread from within the main 10R80 thread.

I also recall a M6G Member saying that if a user has Forscan, the ability to update to the most current 10R80 software via the valve body code is a possibility. Someone correct me if I'm wrong OR please link the info on how to do it.

Other than what has been outlined here AND in the main 10R80 thread, plus as others have said, at this stage, take the car to your Service Center and run some of the above by them, including going on a test drive to demo the issue.


To guess if it's a software or hardware issue won't resolve the current shifting issues with your 10R80. Is it possible the "relearn" procedure after the KAM reset didn't work, sure. But there's no way to know for sure IF that is the issue or if it's something else.

I would not get hung up on software revisions between model years.

 

[MNstang]

Ok so, if you're experiencing harsh shifts or abnormal shifts during any cycling of the gears - whether starting from a stop and letting the box do the shifting, while coming to a stop OR putting the car into reverse from Park, it could be:

1) Low fluid - has been a common theme for all 2018+ with a 10R80. In that very large thread you mention, there is a FACT section. In the section discussing the 10R80 fluid level and dipstick - it's mentioned how to check the level and also the differences between 10R80 dipsticks. A DIYer can check the fluid level, but as others have noted on this site, it can be a PIA. There's no rhyme or reason as to why some 10R80's are properly filled and why others are found to be low.

2) Valve body - hardware - this is another common theme for an issue that caused harsh shifts but seems to have been more prevalent in the 2018's (being the first year the 10R80 was in a Mustang). A KAM reset (software) will not fix a hardware issue at all. You can do KAM resets until doomsday, if the harsh shift exists after a fluid check AND a KAM reset, there's a hardware issue.

KAM reset as noted above will only work providing there are no hardware issues AND that the "relearn" procedure is followed to the T. The relearn process is important and also outlined in the main 10R80 thread. It's important that the relearn is done exactly as described from the Facts section links. If the relearn is not followed (by a DIYer OR actual Ford Tech) then yes, there could be shift issues after a KAM reset.

As I have always recommended to other 10R80 owners, if the car is still covered under the new car 3/36, the 5/60 Powertrain OR a Ford ESP, definitely take the car to your closest Service Center. Request to take a Tech, Service Writer OR Shop Foreman on a decent test drive (not around the block) to demonstrate the shifting concerns. Then let them drive it back to the shop. Don't just drop it off with a "it's not shifting correctly" and leave... Always try to demo the issue to them and let them experience it with you.

As far as actual 10R80 software revisions or updates are concerned, it's my understanding that IF a 10R80 needs to be reflashed, there has to be a current software revision available. The Tech will only reflash IF they determine that your As Built has a lower software revision than what is available through Ford IDS. They're not going to reflash for no reason at all. If the software revision numbers are the same - some might do a reflash after a KAM reset, some may not.

I do not know what the most current 10R80 software version is, so if someone can lost it up, it's appreciated.

I also know that if the valve body has to be replaced they are required to flash the software to the most current version, regardless of model year. The valve body contains codes on it which have to be input or matched for Ford IDS when doing a reflash. I think this is outlined in another thread from within the main 10R80 thread.

I also recall a M6G Member saying that if a user has Forscan, the ability to update to the most current 10R80 software via the valve body code is a possibility. Someone correct me if I'm wrong OR please link the info on how to do it.

Other than what has been outlined here AND in the main 10R80 thread, plus as others have said, at this stage, take the car to your Service Center and run some of the above by them, including going on a test drive to demo the issue.


To guess if it's a software or hardware issue won't resolve the current shifting issues with your 10R80. Is it possible the "relearn" procedure after the KAM reset didn't work, sure. But there's no way to know for sure IF that is the issue or if it's something else.

I would not get hung up on software revisions between model years.

Thank you for taking the time to reply - I appreciate it. I will take it in for a fluid level check and test drive with the tech.

Does your car have one unusually harsh shift in sport mode? My shifts are firm in sport but there is at least one up shift gear and one downshift gear that is much harsher than the others. It sounds like a several other people have the same shifting characteristic but that doesn't necessarily convince me that it's the way it should be...

 

[fatbillybob]

Thank you for your reply. I am thinking I will get the fluid checked and then leave it alone. The fact that my trans shifts well in Normal mode makes me think that it is probably just a normal characteristic of the A10 to be harsh in sport mode. Like I mentioned above - I don't mind the harder shifts but there are some gears that seem to shift way harder than others in sport mode...

I wonder if those who have problems in sport are not driving in "sport." There are just not many places on the street where you can dive into a corner at speed and downshift through gears. Any cop would call you reckless. I think something different happens when on track and you dive into corners and accelerate out driving near your limit. My 2019 pp1 bought new was gutted for a racecar. It is the only life it has known. The motor was broken in on the track motorcycle style. My motor uses no oil and the A10 shifts so smooth I have a hard time feeling if a shift has occurred when on paddles and it is so smooth when in auto mode I just ignore it and drive. I think you have to be "on it" for sport to perform just like normal mode is perfect for daily street driving. This could also be why we hear these complaints often yet dealer techs say everything is normal. The few of us who track A10's don't complain about shifting. We complain about how to keep the A10 cool so it survives. For those wondering if their A10's are working right in sport...take it to the track and find out. I bet it will be butter.

 

[gmupatriot]

I wonder if those who have problems in sport are not driving in "sport." There are just not many places on the street where you can dive into a corner at speed and downshift through gears. Any cop would call you reckless. I think something different happens when on track and you dive into corners and accelerate out driving near your limit. My 2019 pp1 bought new was gutted for a racecar. It is the only life it has known. The motor was broken in on the track motorcycle style. My motor uses no oil and the A10 shifts so smooth I have a hard time feeling if a shift has occurred when on paddles and it is so smooth when in auto mode I just ignore it and drive. I think you have to be "on it" for sport to perform just like normal mode is perfect for daily street driving. This could also be why we hear these complaints often yet dealer techs say everything is normal. The few of us who track A10's don't complain about shifting. We complain about how to keep the A10 cool so it survives. For those wondering if their A10's are working right in sport...take it to the track and find out. I bet it will be butter.

That very well could be the case. I did a KAM on my 2018 GT A10 but still experience a thunking and harsh 4-5 shift on WOT. It does not matter if I am in S, S+, Track mode and or shifting with my paddles, the 4-5 shift on part and full throttle is always harsh, very harsh with a thunking sound and jolt felt through the car. No other gears shift like this, only 4-5. On downshift, in D, S, S+, the 4-3 is a harsh downshift, makes the car buck and make a thunking sound.

I did the KAM reset, drove the car hard a few times after to make the transmission learn proper shifting but it didnt change the harsh upshift and downshift. I am going to take it to a local shop and have them check the oil level. If it is low and after topping it up it fixes my issue, great. Otherwise to the dealer I go.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Thank you for taking the time to reply - I appreciate it. I will take it in for a fluid level check and test drive with the tech.

Does your car have one unusually harsh shift in sport mode? My shifts are firm in sport but there is at least one up shift gear and one downshift gear that is much harsher than the others. It sounds like a several other people have the same shifting characteristic but that doesn't necessarily convince me that it's the way it should be...

I took delivery of my 2018 in March 2018. From the point of delivery up until Jan 2020, I had no issues with the trans. It had started doing a very harsh "slam" from Park to Reverse and harsh shifts if allowing the box to auto shift on its own OR if I was to manually shift via the paddles. In that large 10R80 thread, at the bottom is an image of my Work Order with the complete repair notes from the Tech. The issue was a failing valve body with extremely high line pressures.

After the replacement of the VB in Jan 2020, I have had no other issues since in full auto mode OR full manual mode (ie: user paddle shifts). The trans shifts fine in all gears from an upshift and downshift perspective.

The 10R80 when in TRANS MODE "S" and standard Drive Mode (default) or when in TRANS MODE "S" and Drive Mode S+ will default to a higher line pressure for the performance aspect of the trans operation AND engine operation. When in TRANS MODE "S", the car will have a more performance oriented shift feel if allowing it to auto shift OR if shifting manually via the paddles. This applies to upshifts or downshifts. The the shift feeling will be more prevalent when the trans is trying to operate at lower MPH as well as RPMs. It's also a characteristic of the "RPM rev marching". If you're driving at highway speeds (50+), when in the mode(s) mentioned, the trans should shift without extreme harshness and be a smooth transition into any gear. However again, if you're trying to downshift (the box auto shifts OR manual by the paddles), into a lower gear while the RPMs are playing "catch up" from a higher speed OR the vehicle is going slowly at a lower MPH/RPM, the user may experience some clunkiness.

The 10R80 also does not always auto upshift or downshift in a consecutive 1,2,3... manner. It shifts using the software logic AND determining the most optimum gear needed for the upshift or downshift based on RPM and MPH.

If the trans (valve body) is acting normally, in TRANS MODE D or S, there really should not be any "slamming" or "thunking" of gears, the transition should be smooth - like you'll hear the transition but not feel a physical "clunk".

It's really hard to explain the above in written form, but a failing valve body OR a trans that is low on fluid will have very harsh shifts and engagement from Park to Reverse. It will feel almost as if the vehicle was nudged or bumped when the engagement occurs from P to Reverse or while shifting at any speed in any Trans Mode. You will even hear or feel driveline lash (a loud metal to metal "clunk"), which is the driveshaft mashing against the rear pinion from abnormal trans line pressure.

I don't know if the above helps any better - but do take it in to get looked at and do take your Tech on a drive where you know you can replicate the shifting concerns. Then let him drive it back so he too can replicate it to confirm the issue.

 

[Reddirocket27]

Chiming in: sport mode is much faster (lower rpms) and harder shifts, but I do find that lifting EVER so slightly before it snaps up a gear helps to smooth things out nicely. I also notice that first gear, in Sport, shifts to second much higher than the other gears. I'm assuming this is due to the turbo spooling. Anyway, Sport acceleration is how it should've been tuned from the factory, since Drive is basically eco mode lol

 

[Cobra Jet]

<snip> I did the KAM reset, drove the car hard a few times after to make the transmission learn proper shifting but it didnt change the harsh upshift and downshift. I am going to take it to a local shop and have them check the oil level. If it is low and after topping it up it fixes my issue, great. Otherwise to the dealer I go.

Well, after doing a KAM reset, the relearn process isn't WOTing the vehicle or driving it hard. The complete procedure is outlined in Fact 3 of the main 10R80 thread. This is the actual linked info from that section which outlines the proper relearn process:

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/question-on-10-speed.105430/#post-2702026

Not trying to override what you have stated or done after your KAM reset, BUT others may interpret it as what they need to do (ie: driving hard) - but it's not correct.

---

Aside from the whole KAM resetting (because that's been redundant in this entire thread), what 10R80 Owners (newbies or not) fail to realize is:

The TRANS MODEs "D" and "S" are totally separate from the center stack toggle "Drive Modes". When the trans selector is in D or S, that changes the Trans logic, period. This is completely outlined in main 10R80 thread at bottom under "10R80 for Newbies" section that has another link that covers the complete Trans Mode vs Drive Mode functions.

Once a user selects a Drive Mode, they are essentially selecting a Ford canned tune which changes fuel/air/throttle mapping performance, which yes does and will affect the Trans Modes D and S from a performance perspective. The trans may seem more clunky in Drive Mode S+ and any Track Modes - because those modes have specific functions and performance mapping... AND don't work well for "around the block" driving. Those Drive Modes are more suited to open highway OR track driving where the car can be opened up, and where RPM/MPH changes are not as close in ratio or drastic to the rev match logic at lower speeds when say operating on "local roads".

 

[gmupatriot]

Well, after doing a KAM reset, the relearn process isn't WOTing the vehicle or driving it hard. The complete procedure is outlined in Fact 3 of the main 10R80 thread. This is the actual linked info from that section which outlines the proper relearn process:

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/question-on-10-speed.105430/#post-2702026

Not trying to override what you have stated or done after your KAM reset, BUT others may interpret it as what they need to do (ie: driving hard) - but it's not correct.

---

Aside from the whole KAM resetting (because that's been redundant in this entire thread), what 10R80 Owners (newbies or not) fail to realize is:

The TRANS MODEs "D" and "S" are totally separate from the center stack toggle "Drive Modes". When the trans selector is in D or S, that changes the Trans logic, period. This is completely outlined in main 10R80 thread at bottom under "10R80 for Newbies" section that has another link that covers the complete Trans Mode vs Drive Mode functions.

Once a user selects a Drive Mode, they are essentially selecting a Ford canned tune which changes fuel/air/throttle mapping performance, which yes does and will affect the Trans Modes D and S from a performance perspective. The trans may seem more clunky in Drive Mode S+ and any Track Modes - because those modes have specific functions and performance mapping... AND don't work well for "around the block" driving. Those Drive Modes are more suited to open highway OR track driving where the car can be opened up, and where RPM/MPH changes are not as close in ratio or drastic to the rev match logic at lower speeds when say operating on "local roads".

Duly noted.

I understand the different modes using toggle and using the shifter to go into S is not the same as using toggle switches. Now the issue I have with the trans is that no matter which mode I use, the hard upshift from 4-5 and harsh downshift from 4-3 was not present for the first 10-15 thousand miles but started to show up slowly. The trans would shift fast and smooth in all kinds of modes when new but over times the performance of the trans became clunky and slow. This to me indicates either low oil level or a physical issue with the valve body.

Anyway, thanks for the links to the 10R80 thread. Its always good to be well informed.

 

[MidwayJ]

I have a 2019 A10 with 28k miles. Bought it used at 20k miles. Shifts are definitely a lot firmer in sport+ or track mode vs. normal, and downshifts when punching to WOT are the firmest. However, I would not describe any shifts as "jarring" as some of you have, especially when accelerating at low to moderate throttle.

 

[MNstang]

I have a 2019 A10 with 28k miles. Bought it used at 20k miles. Shifts are definitely a lot firmer in sport+ or track mode vs. normal, and downshifts when punching to WOT are the firmest. However, I would not describe any shifts as "jarring" as some of you have, especially when accelerating at low to moderate throttle.

Thank you for your input. I am planning to drive my car another week or so to practice recreating the harsh shifts so that I am certain I can recreate it for a Ford tech. I just want to have the most information possible before I take it in to the dealership. That was my main goal of this thread. Lots of good info so far.

 

[Soulja4187]

Thank you for your input. I am planning to drive my car another week or so to practice recreating the harsh shifts so that I am certain I can recreate it for a Ford tech. I just want to have the most information possible before I take it in to the dealership. That was my main goal of this thread. Lots of good info so far.

I had a 2020 GT A10 and now I have a 2021 GT A10. I can tell you that the 2021 has had a software revision or something. On the 2020 I had the I would get some harsh shifts that felt like the driveshaft was being banged on and the downshift were also very aggressive. But the one thing that annoyed me most was when the car was put into manual and you came to a stop, it would bring you down to 1st gear and when you gave it gas hit the paddle to shift into 2nd gear the engine would rev extremely high before it shifted into 2nd which at times you would get the bang which it was embarrassing, every other shift after that would almost be instantaneous. Definitely take it to ford to have it looked up and probably updated.

I currently have 1600 on my 2021 GT A10 and so far I haven't experience any of the above issues.

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