Is Magneride worth it? (Magneride explained)

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Does Magnaride need routine servicing?

Is there a likely to be any components susceptible to failure over a standard suspension?

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[DickR]

I think the point that You and Norm are overstating(/overlooking)is that magneride can see what the other corners are doing and work in conjunction with them. (ergo: in real time, before, during and after steady state). Magneride uses real world physics and does alter the suspension's vibrations, travel and roll. Again, even though MR itself doesn't control the roll, it effects it by constantly altering the forces applied, which would be different if you had a traditional suspension.

Replace "roll" with "roll rate".

 

[Norm Peterson]

How stiff can a Magneride shock get?

Dampers don't have the 'right' kind of stiffness to reduce the ultimate deflections reached (including roll).

That's because hydraulic dampers - including Magneride dampers - can only generate forces as a function of viscous resistance to fluid flow, which in turn requires damper piston velocity and a suspension that is still in the process of moving toward a new equilibrium position. As you approach steady-state roll, damper piston velocity slows and ultimately stops, and as that is occurring the damper force is reducing ultimately becoming zero.

Springs and sta-bars generate resistance based on deflection, not suspension velocity, so that's all you've got working to limit roll once it reaches steady state for the cornering in question.

Geometric roll center effects aren't stiffness effects at all; they just define how much of the sprung mass inertia effect ends up as roll moments and how much is carried directly (and almost immediately) through the suspension locating linkages. I say 'almost' here because bushing and tire effects actually do slow this part of the puzzle down from "instantaneous" even though it's usually good enough to assume 'instant'.

Damper force effects slowing down the rate at which roll develops (not the amount of roll itself) reach their maximum effect somewhat later than the above geometric effects. And the springs and bars are at their maximum for the roll event last. All this is happening over the couple hundred milliseconds it takes for the rolling to happen, just that none of the three effects is in phase with either of the others.

It helps a lot if you can apply some of the concepts of vibrations and time history analysis, or how things actually change when you look at what's happening from one millisecond to the next until the event you're evaluating is finished.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

I think the point that You and Norm are overstating(/overlooking)is that magneride can see what the other corners are doing and work in conjunction with them. (ergo: in real time, before, during and after steady state). Magneride uses real world physics and does alter the suspension's vibrations, travel and roll. Again, even though MR itself doesn't control the roll, it effects it by constantly altering the forces applied, which would be different if you had a traditional suspension.

Seeing what other corners are doing still does not change the basic way a hydraulic damper generates forces. What "knowing" what the other corners are up to permits the amount of damping forces to be varied according to whatever logic has been programmed into the controller. It does not change the kind of force from being based on suspension velocity to one based on suspension position.


I suppose if you like calculus, you could consider shocks to be devices that respond to the first derivative of position with respect to time and not the position itself.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

On this thread there are people who own a Magneride car, and they are enthusiastic, to say the least.
Also on here are people who don't own a Magneride car and they are looking to bash it.

Bash, bash, bash that's all I see. Why not let we folk who have ordered a Magneride '18 at least enjoy the anticipation of trying something new?

It's not bashing to try to keep the discussion grounded in physical reality. It does nobody any good to pitch impossible claims for them here.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

Stop digging. Happy New Year:cheers:

Happy New Year back at ya . . . you're already in it, no?

We've still got almost 4 hours left in the old year. No guarantee I'll be awake when the new one does make it here.


:cheers: <hic>

Norm

 

[DickR]

On this thread there are people who own a Magneride car, and they are enthusiastic, to say the least.
Also on here are people who don't own a Magneride car and they are looking to bash it.

Bash, bash, bash that's all I see. Why not let we folk who have ordered a Magneride '18 at least enjoy the anticipation of trying something new?

I hope my comments do not appear to be bashing since I've ordered MagneRide and can hardly wait to experience its many benefits myself.

I am only trying to correct what I see as incorrect info regarding "roll".

I've been an autocrosser for decades and am well aware of the benefits of well tuned dampers for both ride on the street and especially for the rapid transitions of autocross. Unfortunately in many cases better "performance" results in worse "ride". MagneRide, thanks to the hard work of the engineers and test drivers involved, will provide me with both the best possible ride for my aging bones on the highway and the best possible handling in competition. Win and "hopefully" win.

Oh, and ditto with the 10A. ;)

 

[Norm Peterson]

Yes, I meant in terms of ride comfort, not necessarily track usage to where you’re getting a non-existent sense of safety. I should have been more clear.

The "composure" that comes from having decent dampers (whether magnetic or just conventional) is hardly a "nonexistent" sense. It's present at far more moderate driving than personal-best hot laps at HPDE. It's even there in moderate street driving, if you have some idea what to "look for".


Norm

 

[BmacIL]

On this thread there are people who own a Magneride car, and they are enthusiastic, to say the least.
Also on here are people who don't own a Magneride car and they are looking to bash it.

Bash, bash, bash that's all I see. Why not let we folk who have ordered a Magneride '18 at least enjoy the anticipation of trying something new?

Aaaaand the troll is here! I think pretty much everyone acknowledges that magneride is awesome. I'd love to have it on my car. The argument is about physics and what the dampers are actually doing versus what is perceived.

 

[TomcatDriver]

So it would seem to me that the magnaride would have a significant impact on roll rate and second order inertial effects which I would imagine would significantly reduce driver perceived roll.

 

[thehunterooo]

Pretty expensive trolling. I've commited £45,960 to my Magneride '18.

What I do see is people who have spent much time, effort and money on aftermarket suspension stuff for their '15s trying to take the joy out of prospective owners lucky enough to have bought an '18 with Magneride.

Like Deatheaters.

Lol what are you talking about :lol:

 

[Coyote Red]

Norm is a seasoned driver and knows a lot more about suspension than most of the forum members who are not ASE certified techs. He's just trying to help us. I hope this new tech helps us as well. I dd my 16 GT and can "feel" the roll in the routes I take to work. Keep driving a sportscar long enough and you too will "learn" more about your hot rod.

 

[DickR]

FYI there are active suspension systems which provide roll control and/or ride height control.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_suspension

[ame]

 

[Norm Peterson]

What I do see is people who have spent much time, effort and money on aftermarket suspension stuff for their '15s trying to take the joy out of prospective owners lucky enough to have bought an '18 with Magneride.

People like me are more interested in knowing how something like this works. It's part of an engineering outlook that stays with you long after the day's job (or even the entire career) is over. Don't take this and any healthy skepticism that sometimes accompanies it as 'bashing' just because it isn't posted in the "how fast can I jump on board with this?" tone of most early adopters. I could probably make a case for your insistence on there being bashing against Magneride going on as being bashing in and of itself.


FWIW, I'll bet that I've put at least as much time into trying to understand Magneride systems as many of the people who have bought or at least ordered cars with it. There's a more or less technical question earlier in this thread similar to one I had almost two years ago, and I'm going to get to that once I find it again.


Norm

 

[Hack]

I think this is an interesting discussion. I don't feel as though anyone is trying to cut down Magneride. I think the possibilities are so complex and difficult to understand that we all have questions about what exactly the system can and does do. Of course I think my comments are all correct, though!

Sorry I'm not going to respond to every individual comment being made. I will try to simplify my position and explain in detail what I am saying so that it is more understandable.

A shock doesn't have to be infinitely stiff in order to prevent body roll. If you have the information you need (and I don't think anyone is debating that the car's sensors can gather the variable data), you can change the stiffness of the shock to exactly compensate for the amount of force needed to prevent body roll. The shocks on the inside of the corner can stiffen in extension and the shocks on the outside can stiffen in compression the exact amount required to prevent the movement. This can be done independently of any other adjustments to those shocks that are relating to road defects.

I remember a NASCAR team getting caught playing with their shock settings in order to lower the car's ride height. This wasn't using computerized shocks. They "just" stiffened extension slightly and reduced compression stiffness slightly - boom - as the car drove on the race track the shocks essentially held the car at a lower ride height. IIRC they won a few races with the setup before the officials figured it out and made it illegal.

I'm not pretending to know what Ford engineers have done exactly. I do think that the body motions of the GT350 are not just slowed but also significantly reduced or enhanced as the situations call for it. I have driven the car on the track enough as well as autocross situations with very hard transitional and extended cornering movements - I think I have a good feeling for how the car functions.

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