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Is Magneride worth it? (Magneride explained)

Norm Peterson

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Does Magnaride need routine servicing?

Is there a likely to be any components susceptible to failure over a standard suspension?
Obviously there are additional failure possibilities, there being (at least) a sensing subsystem and a power subsystem. I asked about this (elsewhere) I think nearly two years ago. I've had some time to think, so the answers I'm going to suggest now are probably a little better than the ones I got back then.

If the power side goes down (fuse, controller, wires, etc.) the damper(s) are almost certainly going to default to "full soft". Whatever amount of viscous friction is inherent in the MR fluid. Maybe if it's water or chemical intrusion into a connector and you end up with a high-resistance connection, you won't get quite as much damping as the controller is commanding (this is kind of an educated guess).

If something on the sensing side goes down, say some road debris or an off-road excursion takes out a sensor or its wire, it's at least possible for the controller to be programmed to understand the situation and default the commanded damping to something other than full soft.


Norm
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DickR

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What happened with NASCAR was because the tracks were bumpy enough at speed that a combination of soft rear springs, very soft compression and very stiff rebound slowed rebound enough that the bumps caused the shocks to stay in the compressed position.

This is sometimes called "pumping down" or some similar terms.

http://onlineathens.com/stories/012100/spo_0121000052.shtml#.Wko-Dt-nHcs

FYI Hack you are asking good questions so I assume you are interested. There are lots of good technical sources including the links I posted yesterday and this morning.
 

Hack

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What happened with NASCAR was because the tracks were bumpy enough at speed that a combination of soft rear springs, very soft compression and very stiff rebound slowed rebound enough that the bumps caused the shocks to stay in the compressed position.

This is sometimes called "pumping down" or some similar terms.

http://onlineathens.com/stories/012100/spo_0121000052.shtml#.Wko-Dt-nHcs
Correct. Even a really smooth race track that supports race cars driving at 200 mph with splitters super close to the road has enough defects to make this happen. The point being that shocks can do more than some people think. Changing a car's ride height is not much different than preventing body roll.
 

BmacIL

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Pretty expensive trolling. I've commited ÂŁ45,960 to my Magneride '18.

What I do see is people who have spent much time, effort and money on aftermarket suspension stuff for their '15s trying to take the joy out of prospective owners lucky enough to have bought an '18 with Magneride.

Like Deatheaters.
Can I have some of what you're on? Good stuff across the pond, apparently.

I could go out today and buy an '18 with Magneride. Not a matter of luck at all, just choice. As said, I appreciate it and know it's value. You are simply not reading or interpreting words correctly. Between myself, Norm, Hack and others, we're having a very reasoned and impersonal debate about the system, how it works, and what the car is doing. It didn't get in any way personal until you jumped in with the trolling about "bashing" magneride. Sit this one out fella unless you have something to contribute to the discussion, ok?
 

Norm Peterson

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(The NASCAR Cup car crews were intentionally tying their cars down dynamically with shock rebound to prevent as much air from getting underneath as possible, for as long into the turn as possible. Teams do all kinds of things for even smaller advantages until NASCAR figures out what they're doing and decides to put a stop to it "in the better interest of the show".)


Norm
 

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GreenS550

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This is an interesting discussion. However, I disagree with many of the assumptions.
Through a steady roll, it is correct to assume the only limiting factors are the bars and springs. However, I believe with a computer and the magneride system, the instantaneous response a "thousand times a second" could further limit body roll yet respond fast enough to a crack or bump to allow more fluid flow softening the ride. Therefore the analogy of a fixed damper limiting roll or stiffening up to stop roll causing a poor ride may not apply.
The magneride is not just an automatically stiffening damper, it allows for the bumps as it stiffens in response to the roll while responding instanteaneously to the road imperfections.
I have had several suspensions on my S197s and played with them much. I believe what makes the magneride so unique is the instanteanous feedback.
FYI, I have a degree in mathematics and the first and second derivative is not a good analogy.
But to all, thanks for your input.
 

SniperMuffin

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Aaaaand the troll is here! I think pretty much everyone acknowledges that magneride is awesome. I'd love to have it on my car. The argument is about physics and what the dampers are actually doing versus what is perceived.
I enjoy reading your posts, Norms, DickR and all the other healthy discussions. I actually learned a lot from just these few short posts on something I had absolutely no clue about. I can't wait to go out and get a test drive on an 18+ with magneride and see for myself what it really feels like. Oh and Happy New Year everyone :cheers:
 

TomcatDriver

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This is an interesting discussion. However, I disagree with many of the assumptions.
Through a steady roll, it is correct to assume the only limiting factors are the bars and springs. However, I believe with a computer and the magneride system, the instantaneous response a "thousand times a second" could further limit body roll yet respond fast enough to a crack or bump to allow more fluid flow softening the ride. Therefore the analogy of a fixed damper limiting roll or stiffening up to stop roll causing a poor ride may not apply.
The magneride is not just an automatically stiffening damper, it allows for the bumps as it stiffens in response to the roll while responding instanteaneously to the road imperfections.
I have had several suspensions on my S197s and played with them much. I believe what makes the magneride so unique is the instanteanous feedback.
FYI, I have a degree in mathematics and the first and second derivative is not a good analogy.
But to all, thanks for your input.
My expertise is in aviation not automotive. With airplanes, inertial effects are pretty important. Inertial and aerodynamic coupling (motion in one axis results in motion in another axis) are critical to understand. Applying this to the automotive, when a car initiates a turn, the resulting yaw (side-force) couples with roll since the center of mass for most non-race cars is above the wheel axis. This has two components, one from the turn itself, which you could call steady state, and a second from the inertia of the vehicle as it moves toward the new equilibrium. This second inertial effect (I'm sure it has a name) is undesirable. Taken to the extreme, it's how you get a high CG vehicle to roll over, taking advantage of the natural period of the vehicle with a well timed LEFT-RIGHT(or poorly timed depending on how you look at it). I would think that the Magnaride would be particularly adept and reducing/eliminating body roll from the cars own rolling inertia. Particularly in changes of direction (left right vs straight right).
 

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GreenS550

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I think the magneride is the way to go. I hope the Bullitt comes out and I am able to justify buying another Mustang!
 

Norm Peterson

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FYI, I have a degree in mathematics and the first and second derivative is not a good analogy.
But to all, thanks for your input.
It really isn't an analogy. It's part of the mathematical model for vibrations.

In general terms, the equations for vibrations (what suspension motion actually is) read "in English" as . . . (from Marks' Handbook for Mechanical Engineers)

'mass' times 'acceleration' plus 'damping' times 'velocity' plus 'stiffness' times 'displacement' equals either zero (for free vibrations) or some function of an applied force (forced vibrations).

Velocity is the first derivative of displacement, and the units of hydraulic shock damping are force per unit velocity that rearrange from lbs per in/sec to lb-sec/in in SAE/English units.

I don't know how to type out the "x dot" character for velocity and the X double-dot" character for acceleration so that the formulas would look the same as they do in the above reference (IOW, "more mathematical").


Norm
 

Norm Peterson

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There's a short .pdf available for download from www.dscsport.com/software that hints at what magnetorheological damper tuning looks like "on the inside".

Easier and certainly less messy than swapping internal deflecting discs in conventional dampers, and certainly capable of having more inputs affect the amounts of damping that result.


Norm
 

Hack

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A couple more comments about magneride. Definitely it's a more expensive system. There are more parts that can fail.

I had one of my magneride shocks start leaking on my GT350 so it was replaced under warranty. They definitely will cost a lot more to replace than standard shocks. There are also ride height sensors on every corner of the car - more parts that can fail.

On the other hand, having a self adjusting system is nice when components wear. Shocks take a lot of abuse and you know that they will function differently when warm/cold/new/old. The magneride system can adjust itself as components wear, compensate for temperature differences, etc.
 

DickR

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Regarding replacement costs I "decided" to use a version of "racer math" and instead of comparing MagneRide replacement with normal oem Mustang shocks or even with off-the-shelf single adjustable Konis I'm using the cost of really high end products like Penske's, JRZ's, MSC's, etc. Racer math is a wonderful tool.:D

It also helps that my dealer is an SCCA racer and he sells the Ford extended warranty at his cost to family, friends, and racers. One nice thing about the Ford extended warranty is the cost is rebated/prorated if you cancel/sell/trade. :)
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