Is Magneride worth it? (Magneride explained)

[113]

Regarding replacement costs I "decided" to use a version of "racer math" and instead of comparing MagneRide replacement with normal oem Mustang shocks or even with off-the-shelf single adjustable Konis I'm using the cost of really high end products like Penske's, JRZ's, MSC's, etc. Racer math is a wonderful tool.

It also helps that my dealer is an SCCA racer and he sells the Ford extended warranty at his cost to family, friends, and racers. One nice thing about the Ford extended warranty is the cost is rebated/prorated if you cancel/sell/trade.

Next Mustang I buy I'm definitely getting Magneride, and definitely getting the extended warranty. Although I don't plan on upgrading for a while unless a 7.0 is announced.

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[DickR]

Next Mustang I buy I'm definitely getting Magneride, and definitely getting the extended warranty. Although I don't plan on upgrading for a while unless a 7.0 is announced.

The dealer convinced me that I should buy the extended warranty on the 15 GTPP so there is no question that I'll get it on the 18 with 10A and MagneRide. Hopefully I will keep this one for a lot longer than 3 years.

FYI there were zero warranty claims with the 15 in 30,000 miles and hundreds of autocross runs where I got to red line/rev limiter at least once per run. Hopefully the 18 will survive the deep freeze at the factory last week and on the train ride this week. (I've seen the GT350 cold weather testing video posted recently).;)

 

[control4userguy]

The dealer convinced me that I should buy the extended warranty on the 15 GTPP so there is no question that I'll get it on the 18 ...FYI there were zero warranty claims with the 15 in 30,000 miles...

Not seeing the logic here :shrug:

 

[mustang1]

This is an interesting discussion. However, I disagree with many of the assumptions.
...
FYI, I have a degree in mathematics and the first and second derivative is not a good analogy.
But to all, thanks for your input.

what is a good analogy ?

I wasn't sure what is MagneRide , so I googled :

MagneRide - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MagneRide
MagneRide is an automotive adaptive suspension with Magnetorheological damper system developed by the Delphi Automotive corporation and now owned by Beijing West Industries (BWI) that uses magnetically controlled dampers, or shock absorbers, for a highly adaptive ride. As opposed to traditional suspension ...

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5552010/?reload=true
Linear Quadratic Regulator and Fuzzy controller application in full-car model of suspension system with Magnetorheological shock absorber

^ this doesn't look like your average mathematics.

 

[Nomadic]

No, not worth it to me. I have a PP Mustang and never did I wish I could change the suspension setting.

 

[w3rkn]

There's a short .pdf available for download from www.dscsport.com/software that hints at what magnetorheological damper tuning looks like "on the inside".

Easier and certainly less messy than swapping internal deflecting discs in conventional dampers, and certainly capable of having more inputs affect the amounts of damping that result.


Norm

Correct, but what about the inputs not created by that individual dampener?

Say, the other two dampeners on the other side of the car, that are in a different state and doing thing to help apply loads to different sides of the car. (ie: leveling the car off in a hard turn, which non-reactive dampers can't do.)

Producing a slide, not roll.

 

[Double]

If it's able to make the most comfortable setting more comfortable than (or as comfortable as) the base suspension and the most sporty setting more sporty than (or as sport as) the PP suspension it sounds more than worth it right ?

Many people do not feel the need to mod their cars and with things like drive selection, customizable digital display and this MagneRide system allows people to just make the car feel their own, that's a big thing that makes it a Mustang right ? It has long been the case for the modding scene to make your Mustang your own but with a bigger variaty of customers it's really nice to be able to mold the car to your own preferences without having to mod.

 

[millhouse]

what is a good analogy ?

I wasn't sure what is MagneRide , so I googled :

MagneRide - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MagneRide
MagneRide is an automotive adaptive suspension with Magnetorheological damper system developed by the Delphi Automotive corporation and now owned by Beijing West Industries (BWI) that uses magnetically controlled dampers, or shock absorbers, for a highly adaptive ride. As opposed to traditional suspension ...

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5552010/?reload=true
Linear Quadratic Regulator and Fuzzy controller application in full-car model of suspension system with Magnetorheological shock absorber

^ this doesn't look like your average mathematics.

"Modeling of Dynamic Systems" along with "Control and Integration of Multidomain Dynamic Systems" will give you the one/two punch in regards to backround and the math behind system in question.

Definitely my least favorite engineering classes. :cheers:

 

[Norm Peterson]

Correct, but what about the inputs not created by that individual dampener?

Say, the other two dampeners on the other side of the car, that are in a different state and doing thing to help apply loads to different sides of the car. (ie: leveling the car off in a hard turn, which non-reactive dampers can't do.)

Producing a slide, not roll.

Even Magneride dampers do not have the ability to lift a corner of the car up. The forces they develop are always in the direction opposite to the movement resisting it, never in the same direction helping it (at least not intentionally, there's something called 'hysteresis' for damping forces that aren't exactly intended).

This isn't air suspension or whatever hydraulics are used in lowriders to make them 'hop'. The 'power side' of Magneride only causes the viscosity of the fluid to vary by electromagnetic means. Doesn't pump it anywhere.

I'm sure that inputs from all four sensors go into determining what each damper ends up with for commanded damping, and if the entire system can work at the millisecond level that would correspond to a commanded damping change at all four corners of the car about every inch at 60 mph.

Here's a plot about the amount of damping vs ride and vs performance that comes out of the Millikens' book. These curves would be slightly different for a S550 Mustang, but they'd follow the same general shapes. Conventional dampers only let you use one point on the horizontal axis at a time (one point on the ride curve and the one point on the performance curve directly above or below it), which is what you're changing with adjustable dampers by stopping, getting out, and turning a screw or two at each corner. Magneride could give you every single X-axis condition (percent critical damping) as required in real time without you having to do a thing. Incidentally, damping ratios above 1.0 are possible, just not plotted.

I suppose it's at least theoretically possible to come up with a fluid that might approach infinite viscosity, in which case the damper would effectively stop being a damper and start trying to be a solid link instead. You wouldn't get much roll (the suspension wouldn't be very compliant), but you would start breaking things, like inside the damper itself or in and around the brackets that they're attached at.


Norm

 

[Hack]

I suppose it's at least theoretically possible to come up with a fluid that might approach infinite viscosity, in which case the damper would effectively stop being a damper and start trying to be a solid link instead. You wouldn't get much roll (the suspension wouldn't be very compliant), but you would start breaking things, like inside the damper itself or in and around the brackets that they're attached at.


Norm

I agree that the programming and construction will be limited to shock stiffness that provides a safety factor to avoid bending shock mounts or other suspension components. I also agree a magneride shock won't provide lift like a gas shock.

I'm sure you've already considered how long a car typically is in a corner (not very). To reduce the amount of body roll, the shocks only have to be stiff enough to require more than a few seconds to compress/extend under cornering loads.

It's also interesting to consider that a conventional shock contributes significantly to the functional stiffness of the suspension, whereas a magneride shock could potentially have a much lower contribution during normal driving. I would think the designer could choose a stiffer spring as a result, which would help to limit body roll as well.

 

[16 GT MM/Auto]

Something is only worth it's cost if the person paying for it deems it is worth it. Same goes for Magneride.

So I am not the only ones who hate the recaros ...

While "hate" might be too strong a term, I would never purchase a car with them. Like 99% of Mustang owners, I don't track the car and don't throw money at something I do not need.

 

[bootlegger]

No, not worth it to me. I have a PP Mustang and never did I wish I could change the suspension setting.

That really isn't the key benefit of Magneride. Active damping is something helpful in any suspension configuration. The place where I feel it the most is coming out of a hard turn where there are any small road imperfections.

 

[DickR]

Something is only worth it's cost if the person paying for it deems it is worth it. Same goes for Magneride.



While "hate" might be too strong a term, I would never purchase a car with them. Like 99% of Mustang owners, I don't track the car and don't throw money at something I do not need.

Do you "need" a Premium GT Mustang or even a Mustang? Would it be more accurate to change "need" to "want"? :cheers:

FYI I agree with your point. It boils down to priorities and, of course, budget.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I'm sure you've already considered how long a car typically is in a corner (not very). To reduce the amount of body roll, the shocks only have to be stiff enough to require more than a few seconds to compress/extend under cornering loads.

Yes. I do have some idea about the effect that damping has on vibration frequency (natural frequency drops with increased damping, meaning for one thing that the speed with which roll develops slows down but doesn't stop until the true equilibrium positions are reached). It takes a lot of damping to cut the frequency in half (roughly doubling the time it takes to reach the equilibrium position "the first time" in an undamped system), and that's doubling a length of time that's well under half a second. A few seconds is more than sufficient for the damping to have done all it's going to do when roll (with no noise coming up from the road being added) is the only thing being considered.

A system overdamped in rebound would jack down, overdamped in bump would probably be intolerably harsh.


Norm

 

[Hack]

A system overdamped in rebound would jack down, overdamped in bump would probably be intolerably harsh.

Norm

And THAT is the beauty of Magneride. It can be overdamped and then underdamped within milliseconds so that it functions as a spring helper when needed and softens the suspension when that is needed. The computer can assign a "correctly damped" value for different scenarios. And since the system has feedback in the form of suspension height indicators, it can adjust based on what is happening at each wheel.

I think that's why the GT350 rides so great. The suspension is firm, the body is controlled, but it is never harsh. I'm really glad I have magneride on my car.

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